6 ms·

Defense companies are known for high prices, so I think it would have been cheaper to go with the traditional auto manufacturers.

cheschire 6y ago
Traditional companies struggle to navigate the government acquisitions process, or acquisitions can be so different than traditional manufacturing and customer sales that it would require a completely separate company to manage the risks anyways. Instead you typically wind up with a contractor company that can work the system and they act as a middle tier that interfaces with the production company. In the case of vehicles you could imagine a low end contractor would negotiate production fleet vehicles. A mid range contractor might build custom versions using a stock base with a different cabin/storage. The large contractor can handle the full lifecycle including the protracted support and maintenance requirements.
- kube-system 6y ago
  IIRC, the existing USPS vehicles are made with a lot of off-the-shelf parts from existing automakers and their suppliers. In a way, this really isn't that much different than traditional automakers -- a lot of them share parts, or even entire chassis designs. I would expect that these will probably also share a lot of parts from other existing vehicles. The difference is that a government contractor has expertise in packaging everything to meet a single customer's needs. Traditional automakers don't really do this -- they build to their own spec.
- antattack 6y ago
  Chevy has no issues selling their cars directly to government agencies and Ford to Police. So I think that theory is debunked. More likely reason is politics.
  - cheschire 6y ago
    GM's own website about government sales references things I specifically said, so I'm unsure what you're referring to. "Our team can work with you to develop your bid or connect you with the appropriate dealer to fulfill your needs." https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets
wahern 6y ago
Supposedly Oshkosh partnered with Ford for their bid. Though, now they're being evasive: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/02/23/oshkosh-won-usps-bid-may-team-up-ford/4565972001/ https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/02/23/oshko...
mozey 6y ago
If this was happening in South Africa I would think corruption 100%. I mean, why can't you just take any van and stick some standard issue shelves in the back?
- kube-system 6y ago
  You can do that -- but remember that the USPS operates at a huge scale and with a very specific set of use cases. Mass market vehicles are designed for average use cases. If they can custom design a vehicle that saves a driver 1 second per delivery, or decrease their accident rate by 1%, that could be enough savings to pay for the vehicle and then some. Many organizations that operate at a huge scale find it beneficial to customize their essential tool set. That being said -- The USPS definitely does have some vehicles from traditional automakers in their fleet. My mailman drives a RAM ProMaster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato It's left-hand-drive though, so I would imagine that carriers wouldn't want to drive one on a route with mailboxes at the roadside. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/usps2-1614115516.jpg https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images...
  - jonmon6691 6y ago
    This is really not a new thing, ups and fedex have been using custom package cars for decades. It seems totally crazy to go with a military contractor for something that we have a mature industry for a la FCCC or Paccar equivalent
    - kube-system 6y ago
      Oshkosh has been making trucks since 1917... and they make commercial vehicles too. For example, Jerr-Dan is one of their brands.
    - detaro 6y ago
      Fedex buys trucks from companies like "Spartan Motors", that build in custom/specialized vehicles. From wikipedia, Oshkosh seems be a company doing custom/specialized vehicles for all kinds of purposes, including military designs. Why does that seem like a "crazy" choice suddenly?
bonestamp2 6y ago
It seems like a good idea on the surface, but the volume is way too low, a traditional automaker wouldn't touch this. Fleet vehicles are also notoriously low margin, which is fine if you're rounding up sales of an existing model (like police variants of existing models). But it wouldn't be a smart play for a large automaker to build a custom low volume fleet vehicle like the USPS is commissioning here.
- antattack 6y ago
  It maybe relatively low volume but it's a multi-billion contract.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
Most of the traditional car manufacturers are also defense contractors (although some like Ford have spun of their businesses).
antattack 6y ago
Current USPS delivery trucks platform is based on Chevy truck. Basically the undercarriage is GMs product. It seems government contracting with a middle-man who contracts with others is how government likes it. Probably politicians are getting more influence this way, at our cost.

cheschire 6y ago

Traditional companies struggle to navigate the government acquisitions process, or acquisitions can be so different than traditional manufacturing and customer sales that it would require a completely separate company to manage the risks anyways. Instead you typically wind up with a contractor company that can work the system and they act as a middle tier that interfaces with the production company. In the case of vehicles you could imagine a low end contractor would negotiate production fleet vehicles. A mid range contractor might build custom versions using a stock base with a different cabin/storage. The large contractor can handle the full lifecycle including the protracted support and maintenance requirements.

kube-system 6y ago
IIRC, the existing USPS vehicles are made with a lot of off-the-shelf parts from existing automakers and their suppliers. In a way, this really isn't that much different than traditional automakers -- a lot of them share parts, or even entire chassis designs. I would expect that these will probably also share a lot of parts from other existing vehicles. The difference is that a government contractor has expertise in packaging everything to meet a single customer's needs. Traditional automakers don't really do this -- they build to their own spec.
antattack 6y ago
Chevy has no issues selling their cars directly to government agencies and Ford to Police. So I think that theory is debunked. More likely reason is politics.
- cheschire 6y ago
  GM's own website about government sales references things I specifically said, so I'm unsure what you're referring to. "Our team can work with you to develop your bid or connect you with the appropriate dealer to fulfill your needs." https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets

wahern 6y ago

Supposedly Oshkosh partnered with Ford for their bid. Though, now they're being evasive: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/02/23/oshkosh-won-usps-bid-may-team-up-ford/4565972001/ https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/02/23/oshko...

mozey 6y ago

If this was happening in South Africa I would think corruption 100%. I mean, why can't you just take any van and stick some standard issue shelves in the back?

kube-system 6y ago
You can do that -- but remember that the USPS operates at a huge scale and with a very specific set of use cases. Mass market vehicles are designed for average use cases. If they can custom design a vehicle that saves a driver 1 second per delivery, or decrease their accident rate by 1%, that could be enough savings to pay for the vehicle and then some. Many organizations that operate at a huge scale find it beneficial to customize their essential tool set. That being said -- The USPS definitely does have some vehicles from traditional automakers in their fleet. My mailman drives a RAM ProMaster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato It's left-hand-drive though, so I would imagine that carriers wouldn't want to drive one on a route with mailboxes at the roadside. https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/usps2-1614115516.jpg https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images...
- jonmon6691 6y ago
  This is really not a new thing, ups and fedex have been using custom package cars for decades. It seems totally crazy to go with a military contractor for something that we have a mature industry for a la FCCC or Paccar equivalent
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Oshkosh has been making trucks since 1917... and they make commercial vehicles too. For example, Jerr-Dan is one of their brands.
  - detaro 6y ago
    Fedex buys trucks from companies like "Spartan Motors", that build in custom/specialized vehicles. From wikipedia, Oshkosh seems be a company doing custom/specialized vehicles for all kinds of purposes, including military designs. Why does that seem like a "crazy" choice suddenly?

bonestamp2 6y ago

It seems like a good idea on the surface, but the volume is way too low, a traditional automaker wouldn't touch this. Fleet vehicles are also notoriously low margin, which is fine if you're rounding up sales of an existing model (like police variants of existing models). But it wouldn't be a smart play for a large automaker to build a custom low volume fleet vehicle like the USPS is commissioning here.

antattack 6y ago
It maybe relatively low volume but it's a multi-billion contract.

Rebelgecko 6y ago

Most of the traditional car manufacturers are also defense contractors (although some like Ford have spun of their businesses).

antattack 6y ago

Current USPS delivery trucks platform is based on Chevy truck. Basically the undercarriage is GMs product. It seems government contracting with a middle-man who contracts with others is how government likes it. Probably politicians are getting more influence this way, at our cost.