3 ms·

Power consumption is not the only thing going for e-ink. The major win for e-ink IMO is readability in direct sunlight. If it's a nice day outside I have to sta

Power consumption is not the only thing going for e-ink. The major win for e-ink IMO is readability in direct sunlight. If it's a nice day outside I have to stay indoors (or at least in shade) in order to do work. The only reason is that I can't see my display well. As noted, we already have e-ink phones that can do both colour and video[1], while there is some ghosting it's getting to the point of usable. Just need a big display to match it. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EakZQlPvgIY&t=9m35s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EakZQlPvgIY&t=9m35s

retrac 6y ago
A hybrid display, both e-ink, and either an OLED layer or an LCD layer sandwiched inside, seems like it could be done. It would be perfect for a tablet or phone format device. Active lit display when necessary, passive reflective display otherwise. It would be very expensive, but is probably already technically feasible today. I do hope something like that comes to the market affordably eventually.
- vinay427 6y ago
  A transflective LCD already does both of these to a very large degree. They're used by many watch manufacturers that prioritize outdoor use (e.g. Garmin) and/or battery life (e.g. Pebble, now defunct). I've owned two devices with them so far, and quite frankly the newer one works just as well (if not better) than E-Ink outdoors but still has a backlight when necessary. Also, it can display color and smooth motion. The minor downside I see is the lack of an ability to display an image with zero battery consumption, such as on E-Ink, but the consumption is still so low that the transflective LCD watches can last weeks with an always-on display.
AshamedCaptain 6y ago
But other screen technologies have actually _better_ contrast than eInk in direct sunlight (e.g. reflective LCD, mirror-backed). State-of-the-art eInk technology these days has actually WORSE contrast than in the early days! -- https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2021/01/20/contrast-on-e-ink-devices-is-getting-worse-instead-of-better/ https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2021/01/20/contrast-on-e-i... (proving how much people care about it) eInk's primary advantages are power (and only if your idle period is long enough; if you have to update it with any frequence you're going to lose pretty soon to a memory LCD); and angles/polarity (specially compared to LCD), which some people also claim produces less headaches.
- lima 6y ago
  Are there any reasonably-sized reflective LCD monitors?
- polshaw 6y ago
  Transflective LCD, ie pixel Qi.. look vastly more difficult to see in sunlight; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEqd-AnGeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEqd-AnGeI The company also doesn't exist and only produced 10" 1024x600 screens, which are barely usable. If you know of another usable product, or have anything to back up your claims, please do share.
  - AshamedCaptain 6y ago
    To put it simply: ask people who have the Pebble. Most of them incorrectly believe it is an eInk screen, but it is a reflective LCD. I also have the Metawatch. These are purely reflective, not transflective. They boast whopping 20:1 contrast ratios -- https://www.sharpsma.com/products?sharpCategory=Memory%20LCD&p_p_parallel=0&sharpProductRecordId=3054209 https://www.sharpsma.com/products?sharpCategory=Memory%20LCD... . Even at its best days (carta) eInk didn't reach that 15:1 https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E_Ink_Carta https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E_Ink_Carta , and nowadays it's more like 10:1.

retrac 6y ago

A hybrid display, both e-ink, and either an OLED layer or an LCD layer sandwiched inside, seems like it could be done. It would be perfect for a tablet or phone format device. Active lit display when necessary, passive reflective display otherwise. It would be very expensive, but is probably already technically feasible today. I do hope something like that comes to the market affordably eventually.

vinay427 6y ago
A transflective LCD already does both of these to a very large degree. They're used by many watch manufacturers that prioritize outdoor use (e.g. Garmin) and/or battery life (e.g. Pebble, now defunct). I've owned two devices with them so far, and quite frankly the newer one works just as well (if not better) than E-Ink outdoors but still has a backlight when necessary. Also, it can display color and smooth motion. The minor downside I see is the lack of an ability to display an image with zero battery consumption, such as on E-Ink, but the consumption is still so low that the transflective LCD watches can last weeks with an always-on display.

AshamedCaptain 6y ago

But other screen technologies have actually _better_ contrast than eInk in direct sunlight (e.g. reflective LCD, mirror-backed). State-of-the-art eInk technology these days has actually WORSE contrast than in the early days! -- https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2021/01/20/contrast-on-e-ink-devices-is-getting-worse-instead-of-better/ https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2021/01/20/contrast-on-e-i... (proving how much people care about it) eInk's primary advantages are power (and only if your idle period is long enough; if you have to update it with any frequence you're going to lose pretty soon to a memory LCD); and angles/polarity (specially compared to LCD), which some people also claim produces less headaches.

lima 6y ago
Are there any reasonably-sized reflective LCD monitors?
polshaw 6y ago
Transflective LCD, ie pixel Qi.. look vastly more difficult to see in sunlight; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEqd-AnGeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UEqd-AnGeI The company also doesn't exist and only produced 10" 1024x600 screens, which are barely usable. If you know of another usable product, or have anything to back up your claims, please do share.
- AshamedCaptain 6y ago
  To put it simply: ask people who have the Pebble. Most of them incorrectly believe it is an eInk screen, but it is a reflective LCD. I also have the Metawatch. These are purely reflective, not transflective. They boast whopping 20:1 contrast ratios -- https://www.sharpsma.com/products?sharpCategory=Memory%20LCD&p_p_parallel=0&sharpProductRecordId=3054209 https://www.sharpsma.com/products?sharpCategory=Memory%20LCD... . Even at its best days (carta) eInk didn't reach that 15:1 https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E_Ink_Carta https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E_Ink_Carta , and nowadays it's more like 10:1.