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Apple still charges that kind of premium on RAM even on the Intel Mac mini where you can replace the RAM. People still pay it, because most people probably don

Apple still charges that kind of premium on RAM even on the Intel Mac mini where you can replace the RAM. People still pay it, because most people probably don't know the RAM is replaceable, don't want to be bothered with doing it themselves, don't want to accidentally damage their new computer, don't realize the upgrade prices are high, or other reasons. Apple has always charged high premiums for upgrades... premium upgrades aren't a strategy they suddenly invented when they started soldering components down. Apple has reasons for soldering down components, reasons which I don't really agree with, but I don't think they're all that worried about a small percentage of people avoiding their upgrade prices.

webmobdev 6y ago
> People still pay it Not everyone does. There is even a thriving market for such kinds of user replaceable upgrade proving that more and more people were opting to do the upgrades from reliable third-parties than Apple.
- coder543 6y ago
  As I said: > Apple has reasons for soldering down components, reasons which I don't really agree with, but I don't think they're all that worried about a small percentage of people avoiding their upgrade prices.
  - rStar 6y ago
    while i don’t think many of us are used to thinking at scale, any percentage of apple’s customers making literally any choice about something that purchase from apple, is a f-ton of money.
Smoosh 6y ago
I agree with you but I also think that part of it is: - If you make the SSD replaceable, many more people will replace theirs. - Apple doesn't want to put an SSD access port into their laptops for design/strength/reliability reasons. - Replacing the SSD would therefore entail people disassembling the computer. - Apple doesn't want people disassembling the computer * solution = solder it onto the motherboard.
- simonh 6y ago
  - If you make the SSD replaceable, many more people will replace theirs. Very few non technical consumers, which is the vast majority, ever upgrade their computer.
  - gumby 6y ago
    Which means designing in an affordance for it adds a cost for a feature used by a few.
    - grishka 6y ago
      They have the "pro" line for a reason. It's meant for professionals. It's okay to solder RAM and SSD in lower-end models I suppose, but not in those people actually use to get their job done.
      - vesinisa 6y ago
        I must agree with this. About a year ago, our company's iOS development team was replaced. The managers bought the new developers company MBPs. However, after about six months they started complaining that they could not make progress on one feature because Xcode kept crashing when they opened an existing Storyboard file. Turns out the managers had of course cheaped out and bought the developers Macs with the lowest 8GB memory option. Meanwhile, the consultants who originally created those files had had much more sensible 32GB. Now the MBPs for the whole team need to be replaced at great cost and double the environmental resource use. Without Apple soldering the memory our IT department would have certainly just upgraded the memory. In fact, when I ran into similar issue with needing 32GB to my 16GB Dell laptop, that's exactly what we did.
        kgc 6y ago
        Or they could have just bought the max version the first go around. If it's for production the +$1k/dev is less than a few days of pay.
        6y ago
Const-me 6y ago
> premium upgrades aren't a strategy they suddenly invented when they started soldering components down. What you wrote is only a part of the story. Another one happens after using the computer for couple of years. RAM and SSD prices are declining over time, while software developers are finding exciting new ways to use more of them. It’s more profitable for Apple when users replacing entire computers than just RAM + SSD. Unlike the initial premium upgrades, users have more motivation. Warranty’s expired, and the price difference is way larger.
- mnsc 6y ago
  > It’s more profitable for Apple when users replacing entire computers than just RAM + SSD. Are there any hard cold data on how often a mac user gets a new laptop vs a pc user? It would also be interesting to see how common it is for pc users to add ram/disk during their pc:s lifetime.
  - bickeringyokel 6y ago
    I've only just got a new Mac after having my last one for nearly a decade. I've had to replace two windows machines in that same time period. Not exactly cold hard data, but a sample size of 1. There are also windows machines that make it hard to replace things mind you.
    - abhinav22 6y ago
      Same with me and a lot of people I Know. Macs are so reliable (in general, don’t want to get into a debate as a lot of viruses don’t target them as Windows is larger) that upgrading is not required for a long time. It may change in the future if Apple introduces planned obsolescence, but so far no issues
      - wooger 6y ago
        Counterpoint: it's a lot more wasteful, especially for desktops, to own Apple. Look at all the iMacs with recent, high quality 5K monitors that'll be scrapped, as they can't be used with another video source. Such a waste.

webmobdev 6y ago

> People still pay it Not everyone does. There is even a thriving market for such kinds of user replaceable upgrade proving that more and more people were opting to do the upgrades from reliable third-parties than Apple.

coder543 6y ago
As I said: > Apple has reasons for soldering down components, reasons which I don't really agree with, but I don't think they're all that worried about a small percentage of people avoiding their upgrade prices.
- rStar 6y ago
  while i don’t think many of us are used to thinking at scale, any percentage of apple’s customers making literally any choice about something that purchase from apple, is a f-ton of money.

Smoosh 6y ago

I agree with you but I also think that part of it is: - If you make the SSD replaceable, many more people will replace theirs. - Apple doesn't want to put an SSD access port into their laptops for design/strength/reliability reasons. - Replacing the SSD would therefore entail people disassembling the computer. - Apple doesn't want people disassembling the computer * solution = solder it onto the motherboard.

simonh 6y ago
- If you make the SSD replaceable, many more people will replace theirs. Very few non technical consumers, which is the vast majority, ever upgrade their computer.
- gumby 6y ago
  Which means designing in an affordance for it adds a cost for a feature used by a few.
  - grishka 6y ago
    They have the "pro" line for a reason. It's meant for professionals. It's okay to solder RAM and SSD in lower-end models I suppose, but not in those people actually use to get their job done.
    - vesinisa 6y ago
      I must agree with this. About a year ago, our company's iOS development team was replaced. The managers bought the new developers company MBPs. However, after about six months they started complaining that they could not make progress on one feature because Xcode kept crashing when they opened an existing Storyboard file. Turns out the managers had of course cheaped out and bought the developers Macs with the lowest 8GB memory option. Meanwhile, the consultants who originally created those files had had much more sensible 32GB. Now the MBPs for the whole team need to be replaced at great cost and double the environmental resource use. Without Apple soldering the memory our IT department would have certainly just upgraded the memory. In fact, when I ran into similar issue with needing 32GB to my 16GB Dell laptop, that's exactly what we did.
      - kgc 6y ago
        Or they could have just bought the max version the first go around. If it's for production the +$1k/dev is less than a few days of pay.
      - 6y ago

Const-me 6y ago

> premium upgrades aren't a strategy they suddenly invented when they started soldering components down. What you wrote is only a part of the story. Another one happens after using the computer for couple of years. RAM and SSD prices are declining over time, while software developers are finding exciting new ways to use more of them. It’s more profitable for Apple when users replacing entire computers than just RAM + SSD. Unlike the initial premium upgrades, users have more motivation. Warranty’s expired, and the price difference is way larger.

mnsc 6y ago
> It’s more profitable for Apple when users replacing entire computers than just RAM + SSD. Are there any hard cold data on how often a mac user gets a new laptop vs a pc user? It would also be interesting to see how common it is for pc users to add ram/disk during their pc:s lifetime.
- bickeringyokel 6y ago
  I've only just got a new Mac after having my last one for nearly a decade. I've had to replace two windows machines in that same time period. Not exactly cold hard data, but a sample size of 1. There are also windows machines that make it hard to replace things mind you.
  - abhinav22 6y ago
    Same with me and a lot of people I Know. Macs are so reliable (in general, don’t want to get into a debate as a lot of viruses don’t target them as Windows is larger) that upgrading is not required for a long time. It may change in the future if Apple introduces planned obsolescence, but so far no issues
    - wooger 6y ago
      Counterpoint: it's a lot more wasteful, especially for desktops, to own Apple. Look at all the iMacs with recent, high quality 5K monitors that'll be scrapped, as they can't be used with another video source. Such a waste.