6 ms·

> Let’s state the uncomfortable truth. The future for many Americans is bleak and their lives are going to be nasty, brutish and short. Everyday I see a world w

> Let’s state the uncomfortable truth. The future for many Americans is bleak and their lives are going to be nasty, brutish and short. Everyday I see a world where many in my generation have simply given up all hope for opportunity of a family, a house, a stable career and forced to confront an uncertain future in a world that is slowly boiling itself to death. But why? Why can't more kids get into STEM fields? Why aren't there more decent jobs, say manufacturing jobs? Why are American kids so bad at basic reading, critical thinking, and basic arithmetics? Why is there an apparent bifurcation in the K5 system, where a large number of perfectly capable kids get misled and tortured by craps like Common Core, while a small number of kids are ready for algebra or more advanced maths? Why do we have kids who get straight A in high school yet can't pass placement test in a community college? Why do we have so many kids who ace through high school think entry-level courses like introductory calculus or organic chemistry are too hard? The questions can go on. And I certainly don't hope that the answers are what Seattle and California public schools have started to teach: https://equitablemath.org/ https://equitablemath.org/

seibelj 6y ago
If you have enough money you can move to a good public school district or pay for private school. If you are poor you must accept the monopoly school in your district - that is the rule. I myself enjoy having choices for myself and my children but that is a consequence of money. This is why I support school vouchers - let parents determine how to spend their money, and let schools compete for students.
- hintymad 6y ago
  Yeah, or like in other countries, teachers are subject to competition and can be replaced by better ones.
- BrianOnHN 6y ago
  Vouchers only tilt things in favor of private schools. The problem (US) is we've been steadily decreasing the relative cap on public school spending. If the spending wasn't so little, you'd probably be a lot more adamant about that voucher.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    I disagree with you 100%. The problem is we spend more money on schooling than nearly every other country, especially in our inner cities that have very poor outcomes. We don’t need to spend more - another $10k per student with the same teachers and administration isn’t going to magically make every school better. We need to inject competition into the system and stop allowing mediocre / bad schools to muddle along. I’m not sure if you are aware of how bad public schools in the USA can be, but I have witnessed a few and it’s very depressing.
    - BrianOnHN 6y ago
      > We need to inject competition into the system That 10K doesn't fix it overnight, but it does raise salaries which would increase competition in the talent pool.
      - tstrimple 6y ago
        Only if allocated appropriately. I'm fine with more money going to education, but shouldn't there be some accountability from school districts as to where that money goes? Otherwise how do we ensure it's going to the educators to attract more talent rather than get lost in the bureaucracy?
      - elindbe3 6y ago
        Most of the money isn't even going to teachers, it goes to an increasingly bloated administrative staff. Really what we need to do is fire 50%+ of the non-teaching staff at schools. Use that money to give the teachers a raise and lower property taxes at the same time. https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=10527 https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=10527
  - hintymad 6y ago
    It's not just about money. The US spends way more on K12 than other countries per capita, yet I'm not sure if the spending really pays off. Let's take maths for example, how much do I really need to spend to be good at maths? Well, I need a good teacher, I need a few good books, I need lots of well designed problem sets. Do they really need a lot more investment than other countries? I doubt it.
sudosysgen 6y ago
If more kids get into STEM, then eventually STEM salaries will regress to the norm. It's a non solution. Systematically, the average American will and must confront quite the bleak future.
- pydry 6y ago
  It's not far off for graduate jobs already. Unionization will fix this. A glut of STEM candidates will not.
- hintymad 6y ago
  I'm fine with the norm. The norm is better than losing all hopes or a bleak future. The norm is a job that pays ordinary salary but gives me hope that I sharpen my skills and get rewarded accordingly (no guarantee, of course, but there's hope). I'm grateful that STEM pays so well nowadays, but I don't mind if my pay goes back to norm in exchange for many people having a better future. I don't see the current K12 system will help, though.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    The norm is falling through time. Right now, the norm is fine, but in a few decades, the norm will be to barely be able to afford rent. The way things are going, the norm is trending towards pretty bleak, yeah.
    - hintymad 6y ago
      I guess STEM here really means the fields that pay decently and require hard skills. I hope we will always have such fields, be they STEM or not.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        Of course. But they will pay decently so long as relatively few people go into them.
  - equality_1138 6y ago
Huwyt_Nashi021 6y ago
Because we can't even earnestly respond to questions like these without being called racists, bigots, xenophobes, etc. Even this indirect response will probably have me flagged. Because we forfeited the West. We gave up everything our ancestors built because we don't like being called names. We stand back as everything they built is looted and desecrated, while we are displaced and demonised, while our children are perverted and humiliated, just so that people who hate us don't call us names. Because we choose the false religion of progressivism over blood and soil. Because we are weak and vain and selfish. Because intelligent people like you refuse to look beyond the bloody maths curriculum because you would prefer not to be a pariah over your great grandchildren having a homeland.
me_me_me 6y ago
> Why can't more kids get into STEM fields? Because not everyone is predisposed to be a programmer, engineer or statistician. Not everyone can become a whitecollar worker. This is reality of the world we live in, no amount of though experiments will change that. What you are really doing is blaming victims of a system set against those people. Our society should be built so those people can have decent lives too. Ie minimum wage should provide you with above poverty life. Currently in some cities 3 minimum wages are barely that. I am not talking about giving poor people money for palm beach holidays twice a year. Working in McD should be enough to pay for an small apartment bills and food and sending you kids to school. What current situation created is that middle class has to subsidize the social welfare for working class people - WORKING people. Ie middle class pays part of wages of minimum-wage workers because they are in poverty while holding a full time job(s).
- baja_blast 6y ago
  Agreed the idea that "everybody study STEM or get a PHD" is flawed, not everyone can have a white collar job with a high salary. The goalposts will just move, look at SK for example almost every millennial there has a collage degree yet still many of the college graduates that went to less elite schools work at 711. Also in China art graduates make more than STEM graduates since a STEM grad is a dime a dozen.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Are all art grads in China that well off or only the few rockstars?
    - hintymad 6y ago
      Of course not. A random google search led to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/307262/china-average-annual-salary-by-profession/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/307262/china-average-ann... Saying arts major earn better than techies is like saying professional sports are more promising than tech jobs. Both are gross negligence of stats.
- 6y ago
wwww4all 6y ago
The US public school system is money graft operation to pump money to teachers unions and education industry. It’s not about kids and education anymore. Just look at how all teachers unions and most teachers are opposed to opening schools. They know the joke in the system and just want to ride out the COVID plan forever. Teaching kids about anything, especially difficult STEM subjects, are very difficult and requires excellent teachers. The teachers unions don’t care about that, they just run the kids through the system. That’s why good education is lacking in US.

seibelj 6y ago

If you have enough money you can move to a good public school district or pay for private school. If you are poor you must accept the monopoly school in your district - that is the rule. I myself enjoy having choices for myself and my children but that is a consequence of money. This is why I support school vouchers - let parents determine how to spend their money, and let schools compete for students.

hintymad 6y ago
Yeah, or like in other countries, teachers are subject to competition and can be replaced by better ones.
BrianOnHN 6y ago
Vouchers only tilt things in favor of private schools. The problem (US) is we've been steadily decreasing the relative cap on public school spending. If the spending wasn't so little, you'd probably be a lot more adamant about that voucher.
- seibelj 6y ago
  I disagree with you 100%. The problem is we spend more money on schooling than nearly every other country, especially in our inner cities that have very poor outcomes. We don’t need to spend more - another $10k per student with the same teachers and administration isn’t going to magically make every school better. We need to inject competition into the system and stop allowing mediocre / bad schools to muddle along. I’m not sure if you are aware of how bad public schools in the USA can be, but I have witnessed a few and it’s very depressing.
  - BrianOnHN 6y ago
    > We need to inject competition into the system That 10K doesn't fix it overnight, but it does raise salaries which would increase competition in the talent pool.
    - tstrimple 6y ago
      Only if allocated appropriately. I'm fine with more money going to education, but shouldn't there be some accountability from school districts as to where that money goes? Otherwise how do we ensure it's going to the educators to attract more talent rather than get lost in the bureaucracy?
    - elindbe3 6y ago
      Most of the money isn't even going to teachers, it goes to an increasingly bloated administrative staff. Really what we need to do is fire 50%+ of the non-teaching staff at schools. Use that money to give the teachers a raise and lower property taxes at the same time. https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=10527 https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=10527
- hintymad 6y ago
  It's not just about money. The US spends way more on K12 than other countries per capita, yet I'm not sure if the spending really pays off. Let's take maths for example, how much do I really need to spend to be good at maths? Well, I need a good teacher, I need a few good books, I need lots of well designed problem sets. Do they really need a lot more investment than other countries? I doubt it.

sudosysgen 6y ago

If more kids get into STEM, then eventually STEM salaries will regress to the norm. It's a non solution. Systematically, the average American will and must confront quite the bleak future.

pydry 6y ago
It's not far off for graduate jobs already. Unionization will fix this. A glut of STEM candidates will not.
hintymad 6y ago
I'm fine with the norm. The norm is better than losing all hopes or a bleak future. The norm is a job that pays ordinary salary but gives me hope that I sharpen my skills and get rewarded accordingly (no guarantee, of course, but there's hope). I'm grateful that STEM pays so well nowadays, but I don't mind if my pay goes back to norm in exchange for many people having a better future. I don't see the current K12 system will help, though.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  The norm is falling through time. Right now, the norm is fine, but in a few decades, the norm will be to barely be able to afford rent. The way things are going, the norm is trending towards pretty bleak, yeah.
  - hintymad 6y ago
    I guess STEM here really means the fields that pay decently and require hard skills. I hope we will always have such fields, be they STEM or not.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      Of course. But they will pay decently so long as relatively few people go into them.
- equality_1138 6y ago

Huwyt_Nashi021 6y ago

Because we can't even earnestly respond to questions like these without being called racists, bigots, xenophobes, etc. Even this indirect response will probably have me flagged. Because we forfeited the West. We gave up everything our ancestors built because we don't like being called names. We stand back as everything they built is looted and desecrated, while we are displaced and demonised, while our children are perverted and humiliated, just so that people who hate us don't call us names. Because we choose the false religion of progressivism over blood and soil. Because we are weak and vain and selfish. Because intelligent people like you refuse to look beyond the bloody maths curriculum because you would prefer not to be a pariah over your great grandchildren having a homeland.

me_me_me 6y ago

> Why can't more kids get into STEM fields? Because not everyone is predisposed to be a programmer, engineer or statistician. Not everyone can become a whitecollar worker. This is reality of the world we live in, no amount of though experiments will change that. What you are really doing is blaming victims of a system set against those people. Our society should be built so those people can have decent lives too. Ie minimum wage should provide you with above poverty life. Currently in some cities 3 minimum wages are barely that. I am not talking about giving poor people money for palm beach holidays twice a year. Working in McD should be enough to pay for an small apartment bills and food and sending you kids to school. What current situation created is that middle class has to subsidize the social welfare for working class people - WORKING people. Ie middle class pays part of wages of minimum-wage workers because they are in poverty while holding a full time job(s).

baja_blast 6y ago
Agreed the idea that "everybody study STEM or get a PHD" is flawed, not everyone can have a white collar job with a high salary. The goalposts will just move, look at SK for example almost every millennial there has a collage degree yet still many of the college graduates that went to less elite schools work at 711. Also in China art graduates make more than STEM graduates since a STEM grad is a dime a dozen.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Are all art grads in China that well off or only the few rockstars?
  - hintymad 6y ago
    Of course not. A random google search led to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/307262/china-average-annual-salary-by-profession/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/307262/china-average-ann... Saying arts major earn better than techies is like saying professional sports are more promising than tech jobs. Both are gross negligence of stats.
6y ago

wwww4all 6y ago

The US public school system is money graft operation to pump money to teachers unions and education industry. It’s not about kids and education anymore. Just look at how all teachers unions and most teachers are opposed to opening schools. They know the joke in the system and just want to ride out the COVID plan forever. Teaching kids about anything, especially difficult STEM subjects, are very difficult and requires excellent teachers. The teachers unions don’t care about that, they just run the kids through the system. That’s why good education is lacking in US.