3 ms·

Philosophically - there is a solid discussion to be had. Where does the right to food or shelter originate? I want to eat and I want shelter. But how and whe

Philosophically - there is a solid discussion to be had. Where does the right to food or shelter originate? I want to eat and I want shelter. But how and where am I going to get it? Do I have a right to compel someone else to feed and shelter me? How does my desire for food and shelter turn into a right? If food and shelter are a right - does it follow that it is now an obligation on someone else to provide me food and shelter? Society is just a group of individuals. Someone is going to have to build a house and someone is going to have to grow potatoes and apples. Do they have an obligation to share the product of their work with me?

imgabe 6y ago
I find framing things as "rights" is counterproductive. It creates all sorts of entitlement issues. I think it's better to say that society functions better - that is everyone, in total, is generally happier and healthier, if we all agree to work together to provide certain things for each other. Forget about whether it's a right. Personally, I'd rather live in a society with free, happy people who aren't scared and desperate. I'd prefer it more than being extremely wealthy in a society where large numbers of people are barely able to scrape by. It's just overall a better experience to live in.
- testfoobar 6y ago
  Agreed. Raising the floor for everyone by supporting each other is a great objective. It would be beneficial for all of us to greatly reduce food, shelter, income and healthcare insecurity. But this isn't the way our current political discourse is going. Instead new rights are being created seemingly by the day. Voters are asked by politicians to demand their rights. If housing is a right, then some politician will eventually say that vacation homes are also a right. If employment is a right, then employment at the workplace of your choosing is a right.
  - eecc 6y ago
    > If housing is a right, then some politician will eventually say that vacation homes are also a right. Oh come on, slippery slopes aren’t valid arguments.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
If my 3 year old is about to pass away from starvation, and you walk by with a loaf of bread. I'll ask first, if you say no - I'll still be taking that bread. Any parent would do the same. Who has a right to that bread? The person who bought it? Or the person who fought and "won" it from the other? Didn't I work just as hard to take it from you? Is it right that a three year old die, if it could be avoided? There was a time land was basically first come first serve claim any parcel you want and live off the toil of your labors. Lots of today's land owners I'm sure are predecessors of those first land-lords. You feel you have a right to "peace" and that the police will protect you from crime. If you're walking home with a bunch of junk food, and warm bread - you might see one family that salivates, maybe you can outrun them. What happens when 90% of society are those people? Every year more people are getting pushed down into the dumps. Society is just one big social contract, I won't hurt you because I'm okay, things are good. I got food, water, heat, electric, I can't complain. I'm also too busy playing on my android phone to worry about what you have, or want to take it -- the incentive to commit a crime just isn't there... Take away all my things, my home, my clothes, and make my kids starve and you'll see a very different version of me, probably a version I never knew existed. A lot of society is the same. Society functions when everyone is at least "comfortable" and it degrades into anarchy and gotham city-like when everyone is relegated to squalor. If you don't believe me, consult the history books on the French Revolution and see how well it turned out for Marie Antoinette and her compadres.

imgabe 6y ago

I find framing things as "rights" is counterproductive. It creates all sorts of entitlement issues. I think it's better to say that society functions better - that is everyone, in total, is generally happier and healthier, if we all agree to work together to provide certain things for each other. Forget about whether it's a right. Personally, I'd rather live in a society with free, happy people who aren't scared and desperate. I'd prefer it more than being extremely wealthy in a society where large numbers of people are barely able to scrape by. It's just overall a better experience to live in.

testfoobar 6y ago
Agreed. Raising the floor for everyone by supporting each other is a great objective. It would be beneficial for all of us to greatly reduce food, shelter, income and healthcare insecurity. But this isn't the way our current political discourse is going. Instead new rights are being created seemingly by the day. Voters are asked by politicians to demand their rights. If housing is a right, then some politician will eventually say that vacation homes are also a right. If employment is a right, then employment at the workplace of your choosing is a right.
- eecc 6y ago
  > If housing is a right, then some politician will eventually say that vacation homes are also a right. Oh come on, slippery slopes aren’t valid arguments.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

If my 3 year old is about to pass away from starvation, and you walk by with a loaf of bread. I'll ask first, if you say no - I'll still be taking that bread. Any parent would do the same. Who has a right to that bread? The person who bought it? Or the person who fought and "won" it from the other? Didn't I work just as hard to take it from you? Is it right that a three year old die, if it could be avoided? There was a time land was basically first come first serve claim any parcel you want and live off the toil of your labors. Lots of today's land owners I'm sure are predecessors of those first land-lords. You feel you have a right to "peace" and that the police will protect you from crime. If you're walking home with a bunch of junk food, and warm bread - you might see one family that salivates, maybe you can outrun them. What happens when 90% of society are those people? Every year more people are getting pushed down into the dumps. Society is just one big social contract, I won't hurt you because I'm okay, things are good. I got food, water, heat, electric, I can't complain. I'm also too busy playing on my android phone to worry about what you have, or want to take it -- the incentive to commit a crime just isn't there... Take away all my things, my home, my clothes, and make my kids starve and you'll see a very different version of me, probably a version I never knew existed. A lot of society is the same. Society functions when everyone is at least "comfortable" and it degrades into anarchy and gotham city-like when everyone is relegated to squalor. If you don't believe me, consult the history books on the French Revolution and see how well it turned out for Marie Antoinette and her compadres.