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We're no longer talking about "directly soldered RAM"; in the M1 Macs, the RAM is now part of the M1 chip itself. It's on the CPU die.
by Bud 6y ago
We're no longer talking about "directly soldered RAM"; in the M1 Macs, the RAM is now part of the M1 chip itself. It's on the CPU die.
- fredoralive 6y agoNo, the RAM is separate chips / dies, albeit incorporated into the same module as the CPU. On pictures of the M1[1], the RAM is the plastic covered chips next to the main heat spreader for the SoC. [1] Such as the image on the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_M1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_M1
- jeffbee 6y agoIt's completely baffling how a little meme like this, which is in no way accurate, survives and thrives not just at large but specifically on HN. Can we track the meme's point of origin?
- mhh__ 6y agoWhat makes you think HN is that different from anywhere else? And besides, memes persist much more readily anywhere where tribalism comes into play e.g. Politics, Apple vs. [Insert your OS here], Any Tesla thread etc.
- wmf 6y agoThe RAM is on-chip but not on-die... but most people (even developers) don't know the difference between a chip, a die, and a core to begin with. It's a pretty minor error, although such errors are a good sign that someone either doesn't know what they're talking about or is careless with terminology.
- dogma1138 6y agoI’m not sure if the RAM can be defined as on chip but it’s on the same package. A chip can contain multiple dies. Usually chips were just discrete packages basically a die that is packaged for integration onto a PCB. A die is just the bare silicon that has an IC etched into it. With interposers and modern multi chip packages things are a bit more complicated. Since the RAM dies are packages they themselves can be defined as chips too while the CPU needs to be integrated to the substrate first. At this point it’s a question is the CPU+RAM combo can be defined as a chip on its own or is it a hybrid/compound package I would go with the latter. If the memory and cpu dies / chips would’ve been stacked like say the raspberry pie one I would call it RAM on chip tho.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoWhy he like that. Maybe it's a good sign someone is half interested and open to learning more.
- totalZero 6y agoIf it's fair to refer to M1 as an SoC, then it's defensible to say the RAM is on the chip.
- mortenjorck 6y agoIt's not that far off-base, given that most people don't understand the difference between on-package, where a component is bundled with the CPU on the same chip, and on-die, where a feature is actually part of the same litho process as the CPU. There's really no meme to trace here; just a popular misunderstanding of semiconductor terminology.
- andreareina 6y agoSpeaking for myself, this is the first time I've heard of multiple modules in the same chip. Hearing about it now and knowing generally how dies[1] are manufactured and packaged into ICs it's an obvious thing to do, but yeah never crossed my mind. [1] dice?
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoCongratulations, you're one of today's lucky 10,000 :) https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/ I'm mildly annoyed by the tendency of some people to be critical while they're correcting (teaching!) someone.
- photojosh 6y agoIt's cool, hey? How AMD (and others) are now doing their CPUs is a good example: there's often several CPU "chiplets" and then one IO chiplet on the same package. [0] is the first good search result. Given what they've done with the M1, I highly suspect Apple will do something like that for their higher end machines. [0] https://www.anandtech.com/show/16148/amd-ryzen-5000-and-zen-3-on-nov-5th-19-ipc-claims-best-gaming-cpu https://www.anandtech.com/show/16148/amd-ryzen-5000-and-zen-...
- seanalltogether 6y ago> Can we track the meme's point of origin? Apple themselves are responsible for it, all their promotional material for the chip have included unified memory right alongside all the on-die modules https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip_memory__dnhm4hh2i7ma_large.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip_memory...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Reason077 6y agoNo, the RAM is co-located in the M1's flip-chip package, but it's not physically on the same die. In the photo below, you can see the inside of the BGA flip-chip showing the M1 SoC itself alongside two Hynix LPDDR4 devices: https://www.eetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/Apple-M1-1.jpg https://www.eetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/Apple-M1-1.jpg
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoYou've been down voted for technical inaccuracy. I'll up vote you until someone opens the chip package and replaces or upgrades the ram.
- qbasic_forever 6y agoNow you're just daring someone like Louis Rossmann to give it a go. :)
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoHa! Good one ;) I'd watch that.