5 ms·

The more I get that this seems to be how the US seems to be viewing and paying their teachers, the more I start to understand about the last two elections.

rayiner 6y ago
US teacher pay is significantly above the OECD average: https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-world/?amp https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-...
- bsder 6y ago
  Then you need to compare their performance to the OECD average and not, say, Korea. Pay average salaries, get average results. Certainly, this forum should get that.
- Retric 6y ago
  Interesting. The statutory salaries presented do not include bonuses, vacation pay, sick-leave pay, or other additional work-related payments. US time off is significantly worse than the OECD average, so that seems like an odd thing to ignore. Also, It is important to note that this is number of hours spent teaching, and does not include additional teaching duties such as prep time, extracurriculars, or additional student aid time. yet they still make time comparisons The other end of the scale however is more interesting, showing that teachers in Colombia, Chile, Mexico, and the United States spend more time teaching than any other country. It’s an oddly biased way of looking at things not in terms of total compensation, hourly wage, or even lifetime earnings but a hybrid chosen to presumably make some specific point. I wonder how else you could slice this up and how much it would change. Aka median vs average salaries etc. PS: Plenty of ways to play with the number percentage of a medan salaries in each country is arguably the most relevant as it shows what kind of talent you attract and how important it is in each country.
  - PraetorianGourd 6y ago
    Most teachers in the USA are protected by _very_ strong unions, which are rivaled in power only by police unions. They have incredibly high levels of job security, strong health care etc. Pay is often based on seniority, and there is a feature/bug in unions where higher pay for senior staff tends to be a self-renewing problem. All in all, being a (unionized) teacher in the USA is a pretty good gig for most people. You won't be rich, but you are secure and protected. Now non-union/daycare/preschool teachers are a whole different story and they get the short end of the stick. For example, day care centers in the USA have generally been open throughout the pandemic, while schools are (in major cities) still shut.
  - bagacrap 6y ago
    No one has more time off than teachers, who don't work all Summer. The teachers I know personally all state that as a major reason for their career choice.
    - mattr47 6y ago
      Teachers are only paid for the time they work. The summer is not PTO. A teacher might elect to have their salary split into 12 monthly payments, but by no means are they being paid for summer vacation.
      - rhodozelia 6y ago
        Dice up their pay any way you want, I get 15 days off a year above and beyond statutory holidays. Teachers get ... over 50? That’s a lot of time to live that most people dont get
        Retric 6y ago
        The difference comes in when a teacher gets sick, has to move, or gets fired on day X of the school year. Also, most school systems have mandatory training that eats into that time and is uncompensated. A lot is said about teacher pay due to seniority, but only 1/3 make it even 5 years. It’s a vastly worse job than most assume.
- intended 6y ago
  Using pay as a single data point - especially an OECD based average - for comparison is enormously bad practice/praxis. The OECD includes Germany, France, Denmark as well as Mexico and Colombia - the US is most definitely unlike those countries. On the one end, countries like Mexico and Colombia will have significantly lower salaries because cost of living differences. Germany, France and the others will bring up the average, but the cost of living in those countries is impacted by the existence of a safety net and the structure of their school systems.

rayiner 6y ago

US teacher pay is significantly above the OECD average: https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-world/?amp https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-...

bsder 6y ago
Then you need to compare their performance to the OECD average and not, say, Korea. Pay average salaries, get average results. Certainly, this forum should get that.
Retric 6y ago
Interesting. The statutory salaries presented do not include bonuses, vacation pay, sick-leave pay, or other additional work-related payments. US time off is significantly worse than the OECD average, so that seems like an odd thing to ignore. Also, It is important to note that this is number of hours spent teaching, and does not include additional teaching duties such as prep time, extracurriculars, or additional student aid time. yet they still make time comparisons The other end of the scale however is more interesting, showing that teachers in Colombia, Chile, Mexico, and the United States spend more time teaching than any other country. It’s an oddly biased way of looking at things not in terms of total compensation, hourly wage, or even lifetime earnings but a hybrid chosen to presumably make some specific point. I wonder how else you could slice this up and how much it would change. Aka median vs average salaries etc. PS: Plenty of ways to play with the number percentage of a medan salaries in each country is arguably the most relevant as it shows what kind of talent you attract and how important it is in each country.
- PraetorianGourd 6y ago
  Most teachers in the USA are protected by _very_ strong unions, which are rivaled in power only by police unions. They have incredibly high levels of job security, strong health care etc. Pay is often based on seniority, and there is a feature/bug in unions where higher pay for senior staff tends to be a self-renewing problem. All in all, being a (unionized) teacher in the USA is a pretty good gig for most people. You won't be rich, but you are secure and protected. Now non-union/daycare/preschool teachers are a whole different story and they get the short end of the stick. For example, day care centers in the USA have generally been open throughout the pandemic, while schools are (in major cities) still shut.
- bagacrap 6y ago
  No one has more time off than teachers, who don't work all Summer. The teachers I know personally all state that as a major reason for their career choice.
  - mattr47 6y ago
    Teachers are only paid for the time they work. The summer is not PTO. A teacher might elect to have their salary split into 12 monthly payments, but by no means are they being paid for summer vacation.
    - rhodozelia 6y ago
      Dice up their pay any way you want, I get 15 days off a year above and beyond statutory holidays. Teachers get ... over 50? That’s a lot of time to live that most people dont get
      - Retric 6y ago
        The difference comes in when a teacher gets sick, has to move, or gets fired on day X of the school year. Also, most school systems have mandatory training that eats into that time and is uncompensated. A lot is said about teacher pay due to seniority, but only 1/3 make it even 5 years. It’s a vastly worse job than most assume.
intended 6y ago
Using pay as a single data point - especially an OECD based average - for comparison is enormously bad practice/praxis. The OECD includes Germany, France, Denmark as well as Mexico and Colombia - the US is most definitely unlike those countries. On the one end, countries like Mexico and Colombia will have significantly lower salaries because cost of living differences. Germany, France and the others will bring up the average, but the cost of living in those countries is impacted by the existence of a safety net and the structure of their school systems.