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> Epic doesn’t care about protecting users rights to do what they want with their devices. I never said they do. They want users to be able to install iOS app

> Epic doesn’t care about protecting users rights to do what they want with their devices. I never said they do. They want users to be able to install iOS apps on from third party sources. Their motivation is that they simply want to avoid paying Apple's App Store fees. Our causes are aligned even though their intentions are entirely self-serving. They reached the right conclusion for the wrong reasons.

zepto 6y ago
> they simply want to avoid paying Apple's App Store fees This is often repeated on HN, but is not true. They want a cut of those fees for themselves, which is why they want to run their own store and payment mechanism. This is definitely no more aligned with the users than Apple. Arguably it’s less aligned, since they don’t care what users experience with the platform is.
- CivBase 6y ago
  > they want to run their own store and payment mechanism. ...which would require Apple to allow iOS users to install apps from third parties, right? How is that less aligned with users than Apple? What Epic plans to do once Apple's policy changes is irrelevant.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Firstly, a lot of users don’t want multiple stores. Therefore it simply isn’t in the interests of users in general. That statement is false. Secondly, which third parties would be allowed? What kind of stores? It’s pretty obvious that there are many answers to these questions that would not be good for users. So no, what Epic wants is definitely not ‘in the best interests of users’. As I have said all along - it’s in the best interests of Epic, and nobody else. If we want to think about what is in the best interests of ‘users’ that is a very broad and interesting space. And as I have pointed out, imagining that we ‘agree’ with Epic on this, just means that we are supporting them and what they want. Consider for a moment that what is in the best interests of users might have nothing to do with Apple, or the App Store.

zepto 6y ago

> they simply want to avoid paying Apple's App Store fees This is often repeated on HN, but is not true. They want a cut of those fees for themselves, which is why they want to run their own store and payment mechanism. This is definitely no more aligned with the users than Apple. Arguably it’s less aligned, since they don’t care what users experience with the platform is.

CivBase 6y ago
> they want to run their own store and payment mechanism. ...which would require Apple to allow iOS users to install apps from third parties, right? How is that less aligned with users than Apple? What Epic plans to do once Apple's policy changes is irrelevant.
- zepto 6y ago
  Firstly, a lot of users don’t want multiple stores. Therefore it simply isn’t in the interests of users in general. That statement is false. Secondly, which third parties would be allowed? What kind of stores? It’s pretty obvious that there are many answers to these questions that would not be good for users. So no, what Epic wants is definitely not ‘in the best interests of users’. As I have said all along - it’s in the best interests of Epic, and nobody else. If we want to think about what is in the best interests of ‘users’ that is a very broad and interesting space. And as I have pointed out, imagining that we ‘agree’ with Epic on this, just means that we are supporting them and what they want. Consider for a moment that what is in the best interests of users might have nothing to do with Apple, or the App Store.