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I can’t tell if things like this are real issues or “but think of the horse and buggy driver!” problems. We were teaching kids to read, ethics, morals, long be

by yTh0 6y ago

I can’t tell if things like this are real issues or “but think of the horse and buggy driver!” problems. We were teaching kids to read, ethics, morals, long before we had PhDs. Obsession with normalizing agency to abide fiscal concerns is the real issue here. Let wealth collapse by refusing to buy into the idea we owe deference to those that hold wealth. Teach the classics. Write open source. None of it has to be done for a dollar, or outsized prestige.

mcguire 6y ago
"We were teaching kids to read, ethics, morals, long before we had PhDs." I think I'd like some evidence for that.
- yTh0 6y ago
  The first PhD was awarded in France in 1150 CE. Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and even Pre-Columbus America had complex cultural customs, art, math, engineering, medicine, language they handed down generationally. University as we know it is a relic of Medieval European tradition.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    I've seen the literacy rate of medieval Europe estimated at 10%. Ethics and morals were being taught roughly the same way they are now: you believe what your parents believed. Medieval medicine was being taught from translations of Arabic copies of Galen.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  Is that not obvious? Via the ancient Greek schools of philosophy for example?
  - mcguire 6y ago
    IIUC, the literacy rate was for most of the Mediterranean world was around 20%, specifically excluding slaves and women. Which is pretty high, actually. The Greek schools of philosophy were taught by the equivalent of PhDs.
dpoochieni 6y ago
An (sadly? or rather realistically) that is what it boils down to, people who read the classics, read the classics, whether at Harvard or elsewhere. People who are critical thinkers, are critical thinkers, again whether at a college or elsewhere. People who X, X. To think that spending money (and increasing amounts of it) will change this is sheer insanity. Sure, you might get a few that otherwise would have never Xed to now X, but is it not just fundamentally inefficient? For every p that now Xs how many are still as lost? What would one do next? Concerning the nurture component; Change their parents? Take the children away to be raised by a government? Concerning the nature component; Alter their DNA?

by yTh0 6y ago

mcguire 6y ago

"We were teaching kids to read, ethics, morals, long before we had PhDs." I think I'd like some evidence for that.

yTh0 6y ago
The first PhD was awarded in France in 1150 CE. Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and even Pre-Columbus America had complex cultural customs, art, math, engineering, medicine, language they handed down generationally. University as we know it is a relic of Medieval European tradition.
- mcguire 6y ago
  I've seen the literacy rate of medieval Europe estimated at 10%. Ethics and morals were being taught roughly the same way they are now: you believe what your parents believed. Medieval medicine was being taught from translations of Arabic copies of Galen.
read_if_gay_ 6y ago
Is that not obvious? Via the ancient Greek schools of philosophy for example?
- mcguire 6y ago
  IIUC, the literacy rate was for most of the Mediterranean world was around 20%, specifically excluding slaves and women. Which is pretty high, actually. The Greek schools of philosophy were taught by the equivalent of PhDs.

dpoochieni 6y ago

An (sadly? or rather realistically) that is what it boils down to, people who read the classics, read the classics, whether at Harvard or elsewhere. People who are critical thinkers, are critical thinkers, again whether at a college or elsewhere. People who X, X. To think that spending money (and increasing amounts of it) will change this is sheer insanity. Sure, you might get a few that otherwise would have never Xed to now X, but is it not just fundamentally inefficient? For every p that now Xs how many are still as lost? What would one do next? Concerning the nurture component; Change their parents? Take the children away to be raised by a government? Concerning the nature component; Alter their DNA?