2 ms·

Depends on what role you're hiring for, because a good network does not help you write code (for instance).

by solosoyokaze 6y ago

ska 6y ago
That doesn't make someone incompetent; it may make them a bad fit for a particular job.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  No, it makes them incompetent. They lack the competence required to do the job. Semantics aside, my point is that being from an ivy league is not a strong signal for being a good developer (and many other things).
  - ska 6y ago
    Your characterization is not realistic. Sure if you hire an ivy league grad with a degree in french literature they may not be much of a programmer. If you hire one with a CS degree they will probably be decent - at least at the higher end of US colleges. The idea that the ivy league is swimming with under-performing people who are only there because of wealth and connections just isn't true. What is closer to truth - there are lots of people there who are a bit above average capability, very good preparation, and also have family money and/or connections. In a truly broad, merit only based admissions process most of these people wouldn't make the cut. But it's not because they are weak students, rather because the number of slots in ivy is a small number compared to the total number of strong potential students in the country if you looked really hard.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      > If you hire one with a CS degree they will probably be decent. I'm saying from experience, this is not the case. I've found ivy league CS students to consistently under perform. School in general is not a strong signal, but for whatever reason the ivys consistently produce people who struggle to ship. My original point is that OSS contribution is a strong signal and what people should look at if they want strong developers. I'm sure other industries have other work oriented methods for determining aptitude.
      - ska 6y ago
        > I'm saying from experience, this is not the case And I'm saying from experience this is the case - so I guess we're at an impasse due to selection bias. Maybe I've just had better luck in picking them. Agree there are other better signals sometimes available. For what it's worth "has a CS degree" isn't a great indicator for a developer at all in my experience, with a very few programs excepted (e.g. CMU, Waterloo). But this has nothing to do with ivy vs. non-ivy. The idea that ivy's are awash with people having little talent is still just silly though.
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        > Agree there are other better signals sometimes available. For what it's worth "has a CS degree" isn't a great indicator for a developer at all in my experience Totally agree. > The idea that ivy's are awash with people having little talent is still just silly though. I would say it's more that they are average but the degree tends to float them to the top of a stack of cvs, so there's a premium you pay in terms of attention (and money if you hire them) that in my experience, is not worth it.

Depends on what role you're hiring for, because a good network does not help you write code (for instance).

ska 6y ago

That doesn't make someone incompetent; it may make them a bad fit for a particular job.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
No, it makes them incompetent. They lack the competence required to do the job. Semantics aside, my point is that being from an ivy league is not a strong signal for being a good developer (and many other things).
- ska 6y ago
  Your characterization is not realistic. Sure if you hire an ivy league grad with a degree in french literature they may not be much of a programmer. If you hire one with a CS degree they will probably be decent - at least at the higher end of US colleges. The idea that the ivy league is swimming with under-performing people who are only there because of wealth and connections just isn't true. What is closer to truth - there are lots of people there who are a bit above average capability, very good preparation, and also have family money and/or connections. In a truly broad, merit only based admissions process most of these people wouldn't make the cut. But it's not because they are weak students, rather because the number of slots in ivy is a small number compared to the total number of strong potential students in the country if you looked really hard.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    > If you hire one with a CS degree they will probably be decent. I'm saying from experience, this is not the case. I've found ivy league CS students to consistently under perform. School in general is not a strong signal, but for whatever reason the ivys consistently produce people who struggle to ship. My original point is that OSS contribution is a strong signal and what people should look at if they want strong developers. I'm sure other industries have other work oriented methods for determining aptitude.
    - ska 6y ago
      > I'm saying from experience, this is not the case And I'm saying from experience this is the case - so I guess we're at an impasse due to selection bias. Maybe I've just had better luck in picking them. Agree there are other better signals sometimes available. For what it's worth "has a CS degree" isn't a great indicator for a developer at all in my experience, with a very few programs excepted (e.g. CMU, Waterloo). But this has nothing to do with ivy vs. non-ivy. The idea that ivy's are awash with people having little talent is still just silly though.
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        > Agree there are other better signals sometimes available. For what it's worth "has a CS degree" isn't a great indicator for a developer at all in my experience Totally agree. > The idea that ivy's are awash with people having little talent is still just silly though. I would say it's more that they are average but the degree tends to float them to the top of a stack of cvs, so there's a premium you pay in terms of attention (and money if you hire them) that in my experience, is not worth it.