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To quote the article: > Reparations? Perhaps – although there is not enough money in all of Britain to cover the sums that Patnaik identifies. In the meantime,
by glial 6y ago
To quote the article:
> Reparations? Perhaps – although there is not enough money in all of Britain to cover the sums that Patnaik identifies. In the meantime, we can start by setting the story straight.
In your world, do you see a place for this sort of historical investigation of the consequences of past actions, to learn from history?
- loceng 6y agoIt depends on if the purpose of bringing these stories to light is wielded as a weapon or as a text book.
- Imnimo 6y agoWould you rather the history be kept secret than be "wielded as a weapon"?
- damagednoob 6y agoYou do realise those aren't the only two options? What loceng is talking about is sins of the father being transferred to the children.
- Imnimo 6y agoYes, but when asked, "do you see a place for this sort of historical investigation of the consequences of past actions?" they said that the answer depends on whether it is "wielded as a weapon", which seems to imply that the answer in that case would be "no" - that if given a choice between only the options of being kept secret or being wielded as a weapon, they would prefer it be kept secret.
- loceng 6y agoYou're somehow leaving out the option that I mentioned of "use as a text book." My answer was to highlight the concern that intent/purpose and motives are important, e.g if someone going to use the reminder of history as a weapon to rally anger and hate, or to guide rational, reasonable discussion?
- Imnimo 6y agoYes, I understand that that's your preferred option. But your answer seems to imply that if people were going to use history as a weapon, then it would be better for it to not be known at all. That is, your order of preferences is Text Book > Secret > Used as Weapon.
- damagednoob 6y agoIf the purpose for 'historical investigation of the consequences of past actions' is to rally anger and hate in the present, then no, I would prefer it kept 'secret'. Mainly because I would have no faith that the investigation would be objective or have any redeeming qualities.
- Imnimo 6y agoEven true facts can be used for bad purposes, and even uncomfortable facts are worth knowing. This philosophy is what leads to things like denying the Armenian genocide, or denying the rape of Nanking.
- damagednoob 6y agoAre those atrocities being used to demonize the descendants of the perpretrators? Not that I can see. Therefore, I take no issue with bringing them to light. It seems you'd be okay with using true facts to incite racial or religious hatred, something which is against the law in most western countries.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago> If the purpose for 'historical investigation of the consequences of past actions' is to rally anger and hate in the present That's exactly what many 'investigations', which are not always historically accurate, are about: Stroking nationalism, hate, and a sense of revenge on the one side (and we can see good examples of that in the comments here), and shame on the other side. The UK and Europe have nothing to be ashamed of (which isn't to say that past actions cannot be criticised). Stroking hate and revenge is taking a path of perpetuation of aggression. Certainly, this article is crass propaganda and not journalism. I flagged the submission to no effect.
- jgowdy 6y agoCertainly, I'm pretty sure in my comment, I emphasized that it's the very selective seeking of historical justice, most commonly targeting Europe, England, and the United States which impeaches the credibility of the whole exercise as not just about righting and learning from historical wrongs, but instead advancing an agenda. Of course if we were working to right or at least learn about all historical wrongs without being selective about it, then I would argue that attempting to undo the horrors of human history is quixotic and a fool's errand.
- scsilver 6y agoMaybe because these attrocities were committed by people in recent history and the technology and record keeping have made it possible to quantify the destruction and pillaging. And that the west is open to being held accountable.
- loveistheanswer 6y agoMaybe, maybe not. Why is there never any mention of the horrors of the Arab Slave Trade in these discussions? And why does no one mention that it was the British who spearheaded the global abolition of slavery?
- karpierz 6y agoIf you want to start a discussion about the Arab Slave Trade and reparations for it, feel free. But in the meantime, please don't derail discussions about one atrocity with a meta-discussion about every atrocity and how those atrocities rank amongst each other.
- loveistheanswer 6y agoWhy are you so anxious to shut down a broader discussion about the reality of human nature and slavery? Perhaps there is a painful reality of the human condition which you do not want to confront?
- 6y ago