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"iOS still offers the best update plan in the industry, with iOS 14 support going all the way back to the iPhone 6S, a phone released in 2015." That implies 5

by simonh 6y ago

"iOS still offers the best update plan in the industry, with iOS 14 support going all the way back to the iPhone 6S, a phone released in 2015." That implies 5 years of support. Samsung is only offering bug fixes and security updates for up to 4 years from release though, not major releases. The iPhone 5s just got a point release this January, and that phone came out in 2013 so that's over 7 years and counting. The iPhone 5 also got 7 years of fixes (well, 6 years and 10 months).

AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
Depending on your point of view, security updates for old devices are almost preferable to full-feature updates. My reasoning is as follows: Each new version of iOS/Android is more resource-hungry than the last, and expects better hardware to run it. Many people with Apple device complain, "This new version makes my old iPhone/iPad so slow it's practically useless." So in most cases, people want to keep using their old devices (presumably at the performance speed they were running previously), but they are compelled to stop using them when they stop receiving updates, because the unpatched bugs/exploits could put their data at risk. While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit.
- 177tcca 6y ago
  This is why a Pixel 3a or later with GrapheneOS.org is tough to beat. Best of all worlds.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Frankly, this goes for most software, for me. When I update, I want security fixes, bugs fixed, and performance improvements. I generally don't want more feature cram, pointless UX re-designs, and deprecated functionality. Unfortunately, the way 99% of software companies do updates, you have to take the bad if you want the good. They don't do separate tracks, where people who just want under-the-hood fixes can get them.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit. most people don't care about patch level either. if they care about OS versions at all, they just want the option to decline so their old phone doesn't get "slower". outside of my tech friends, no one I know takes security updates into account when purchasing a new phone and/or retiring an old one. in any case, OS security updates are only part of the story. eventually important apps you use will require a higher OS version for updates. then you're using a secure OS, but possibly stuck using an old version of an app with its own known vulnerabilities.
vetinari 6y ago
It is not correct to compare Android updates to iOS updates. On iOS, the bundled apps are locked to the iOS release. One of these is Safari - the only browser allowed on iOS. So to have a current browser it is critical to update the underlying OS too. On Android, this is not the same. The apps are updated even if the OS is not; so you will have Chrome (or Firefox) in the current version, even if your vendor doesn't update the OS.
- blinkingled 6y ago
  Right. Newer Android versions keep adding more and more critical stuff that gets updated via the play store - ART (Android Runtime) will be a Mainline module in Android 12 that would allow Google to update it without needing a system OTA update. Chrome/System WebView have been updated via Play Store since Android 5 I think. https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/modular-system https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/modular-syst...
  - foolmeonce 6y ago
    The manufacturer/google installed apps really undermine what little trust I have in Android security. If you do a normal OS update, the old version is gone. With these playstore things, ancient versions are sitting in storage waiting to be rolled back to (or probably otherwise executed with the permissions they shipped with,) since no one can be trusted to know they don't need bloatware.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  Assuming the app vendors still targets old stale releases. Fragmentation on Android makes it worthwhile to only test on the flagship phones with a few different version. Everywhere else is pretty much too small to be worth the effort.
- simonh 6y ago
  That’s better than nothing, but still pretty half arsed. To see why, here’s the latest monthly Android Security Bulletin. I count 43 of these fixes are for issues with the underlying AOSP platform, kernel and drivers. One of them is a Play Store codec update. Admittedly not all of those fixes are relevant to every device because some of them (about a dozen) are specific driver updates, but over 40 fixes in one randomly chosen monthly update isn’t trivial. This is what you lose when your device goes out of support. https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2021-02-01 https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2021-02-01
amanaplanacanal 6y ago
I used android phones for years, but this is exactly why I switched to iOS for my last phone. I was tired of having a perfectly good phone that I could no longer get security updates for.
john2010 6y ago
Too many say that. iOS 14 in 6S. but can you use it like a daily driver and ditch your > 2019 iPhone? It is OK if you are using 6S for email + whatsapp? Any thing more? A typical user has atleast 20 apps - from banking to zoom.
- slaw 6y ago
  I am using 6S plus as daily driver. More than 80 apps. Everything works smooth except for 3rd party keyboard.

by simonh 6y ago

AdmiralAsshat 6y ago

Depending on your point of view, security updates for old devices are almost preferable to full-feature updates. My reasoning is as follows: Each new version of iOS/Android is more resource-hungry than the last, and expects better hardware to run it. Many people with Apple device complain, "This new version makes my old iPhone/iPad so slow it's practically useless." So in most cases, people want to keep using their old devices (presumably at the performance speed they were running previously), but they are compelled to stop using them when they stop receiving updates, because the unpatched bugs/exploits could put their data at risk. While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit.

177tcca 6y ago
This is why a Pixel 3a or later with GrapheneOS.org is tough to beat. Best of all worlds.
ryandrake 6y ago
Frankly, this goes for most software, for me. When I update, I want security fixes, bugs fixed, and performance improvements. I generally don't want more feature cram, pointless UX re-designs, and deprecated functionality. Unfortunately, the way 99% of software companies do updates, you have to take the bad if you want the good. They don't do separate tracks, where people who just want under-the-hood fixes can get them.
leetcrew 6y ago
> While there are definitely many people who would like the latest-greatest OS on their device, I think a large number of people would be happy with their device's current OS, patched to ensure that it's not vulnerable to an active 0-day exploit. most people don't care about patch level either. if they care about OS versions at all, they just want the option to decline so their old phone doesn't get "slower". outside of my tech friends, no one I know takes security updates into account when purchasing a new phone and/or retiring an old one. in any case, OS security updates are only part of the story. eventually important apps you use will require a higher OS version for updates. then you're using a secure OS, but possibly stuck using an old version of an app with its own known vulnerabilities.

vetinari 6y ago

It is not correct to compare Android updates to iOS updates. On iOS, the bundled apps are locked to the iOS release. One of these is Safari - the only browser allowed on iOS. So to have a current browser it is critical to update the underlying OS too. On Android, this is not the same. The apps are updated even if the OS is not; so you will have Chrome (or Firefox) in the current version, even if your vendor doesn't update the OS.

blinkingled 6y ago
Right. Newer Android versions keep adding more and more critical stuff that gets updated via the play store - ART (Android Runtime) will be a Mainline module in Android 12 that would allow Google to update it without needing a system OTA update. Chrome/System WebView have been updated via Play Store since Android 5 I think. https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/modular-system https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/modular-syst...
- foolmeonce 6y ago
  The manufacturer/google installed apps really undermine what little trust I have in Android security. If you do a normal OS update, the old version is gone. With these playstore things, ancient versions are sitting in storage waiting to be rolled back to (or probably otherwise executed with the permissions they shipped with,) since no one can be trusted to know they don't need bloatware.
908B64B197 6y ago
Assuming the app vendors still targets old stale releases. Fragmentation on Android makes it worthwhile to only test on the flagship phones with a few different version. Everywhere else is pretty much too small to be worth the effort.
simonh 6y ago
That’s better than nothing, but still pretty half arsed. To see why, here’s the latest monthly Android Security Bulletin. I count 43 of these fixes are for issues with the underlying AOSP platform, kernel and drivers. One of them is a Play Store codec update. Admittedly not all of those fixes are relevant to every device because some of them (about a dozen) are specific driver updates, but over 40 fixes in one randomly chosen monthly update isn’t trivial. This is what you lose when your device goes out of support. https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2021-02-01 https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2021-02-01

amanaplanacanal 6y ago

I used android phones for years, but this is exactly why I switched to iOS for my last phone. I was tired of having a perfectly good phone that I could no longer get security updates for.

john2010 6y ago

Too many say that. iOS 14 in 6S. but can you use it like a daily driver and ditch your > 2019 iPhone? It is OK if you are using 6S for email + whatsapp? Any thing more? A typical user has atleast 20 apps - from banking to zoom.

slaw 6y ago
I am using 6S plus as daily driver. More than 80 apps. Everything works smooth except for 3rd party keyboard.