4 ms·

How is the behaviour described in the article stalking or harassment?

Cerium 6y ago
If someone want's a public presence they can have one. If there is not an obvious way to contact someone it can be assumed to be on purpose.
- ivanbakel 6y ago
  But there is an obvious way to contact all the people who are being sent letters - they are in the white pages. What part of sending someone a letter to a publicly-listed address constitutes stalking or harassment?
  - embeddedsystems 6y ago
    The white pages should not even exist. You're using an unwanted, non opt-in, forced privacy violation as a reason. You exist in Experian, does that mean that automatically gives me the right to bother you and tell people online to bother you on socia lmedia?
    - dleslie 6y ago
      People without landlines were never listed in the white pages; you opted in by purchasing a phone, and could opt out at the time of purchase and any time thereafter. Perhaps it was a bad default, but avoiding being listed was an accessible option.
      - embeddedsystems 6y ago
        Unfortunately, this isn't the case in 2010+, where the WP site purchases tons of info from data brokers to sell. You don't need a landline or to opt in.
        dleslie 6y ago
        That sounds like it might be prohibited by EU and Canadian law.
        embeddedsystems 6y ago
        I do a bunch of stuff in the gaming space, and WP has been one of the bigger causes of pain for streamers. Often separate 2FA-only - to prevent account hijacks - cellphones that are paid monthly and used nowhere else still show up, and the result is attempted murder (via swatting). This happens so frequently it's absurd. None of this is opt in, all of it is extremely unwanted, and those companies really should not exist.
        dleslie 6y ago
        How are the swatters getting access to the phone number if it's used nowhere else? Disclaimer: I also work in gaming, and deal with streamer security.
        embeddedsystems 6y ago
        WP's site helpfully tries to show "this person's other phone numbers". My guess is it's acquired via credit institutions when you use that number for 2FA with a bank (since honestly, what the hell, virtually no bank supports U2F/TOTP 2FA and demand phone numbers, ugh) I don't know how they match it in the backend, often it's wrong (and results in innocent parties being attacked). I usually recommend completely prepaid lines for this to prevent hijackers from using the good old social engineering trick to hijack their accounts via customer service by providing last 4 of various identifiers. But these still eventually show up after you add the number to enough 'traditional' accounts. One of my friends (female, streamer) has gotten police at her house at 3 am with guns drawn so many times it's ridiculous. At least in many parts of, if not the entire US, trying to swat someone is legitimately trying to do your hardest to murder them. This honestly should be made illegal, there is no reason for these services to exist, or for public records to be made available at all other than rate limited, in person without the ability to take a copy. Exceptions can be made for elected officials.
      - tssva 6y ago
        Opting out usually involved having to pay a fee.

If someone want's a public presence they can have one. If there is not an obvious way to contact someone it can be assumed to be on purpose.

ivanbakel 6y ago
But there is an obvious way to contact all the people who are being sent letters - they are in the white pages. What part of sending someone a letter to a publicly-listed address constitutes stalking or harassment?
- embeddedsystems 6y ago
  The white pages should not even exist. You're using an unwanted, non opt-in, forced privacy violation as a reason. You exist in Experian, does that mean that automatically gives me the right to bother you and tell people online to bother you on socia lmedia?
  - dleslie 6y ago
    People without landlines were never listed in the white pages; you opted in by purchasing a phone, and could opt out at the time of purchase and any time thereafter. Perhaps it was a bad default, but avoiding being listed was an accessible option.
    - embeddedsystems 6y ago
      Unfortunately, this isn't the case in 2010+, where the WP site purchases tons of info from data brokers to sell. You don't need a landline or to opt in.
      - dleslie 6y ago
        That sounds like it might be prohibited by EU and Canadian law.
        embeddedsystems 6y ago
        I do a bunch of stuff in the gaming space, and WP has been one of the bigger causes of pain for streamers. Often separate 2FA-only - to prevent account hijacks - cellphones that are paid monthly and used nowhere else still show up, and the result is attempted murder (via swatting). This happens so frequently it's absurd. None of this is opt in, all of it is extremely unwanted, and those companies really should not exist.
        dleslie 6y ago
        How are the swatters getting access to the phone number if it's used nowhere else? Disclaimer: I also work in gaming, and deal with streamer security.
        embeddedsystems 6y ago
        WP's site helpfully tries to show "this person's other phone numbers". My guess is it's acquired via credit institutions when you use that number for 2FA with a bank (since honestly, what the hell, virtually no bank supports U2F/TOTP 2FA and demand phone numbers, ugh) I don't know how they match it in the backend, often it's wrong (and results in innocent parties being attacked). I usually recommend completely prepaid lines for this to prevent hijackers from using the good old social engineering trick to hijack their accounts via customer service by providing last 4 of various identifiers. But these still eventually show up after you add the number to enough 'traditional' accounts. One of my friends (female, streamer) has gotten police at her house at 3 am with guns drawn so many times it's ridiculous. At least in many parts of, if not the entire US, trying to swat someone is legitimately trying to do your hardest to murder them. This honestly should be made illegal, there is no reason for these services to exist, or for public records to be made available at all other than rate limited, in person without the ability to take a copy. Exceptions can be made for elected officials.
    - tssva 6y ago
      Opting out usually involved having to pay a fee.