6 ms·

Seriously, why is this kind of harassment and stalking acceptable in any way? Why on earth is Polygon encouraging this BS? Go look at virtually any female vide

• ivanbakel 6y ago
  How is the behaviour described in the article stalking or harassment?
  • Cerium 6y ago
    If someone want's a public presence they can have one. If there is not an obvious way to contact someone it can be assumed to be on purpose.
    • ivanbakel 6y ago
      But there is an obvious way to contact all the people who are being sent letters - they are in the white pages. What part of sending someone a letter to a publicly-listed address constitutes stalking or harassment?
      • embeddedsystems 6y ago
        The white pages should not even exist. You're using an unwanted, non opt-in, forced privacy violation as a reason. You exist in Experian, does that mean that automatically gives me the right to bother you and tell people online to bother you on socia lmedia?
        • dleslie 6y ago
          People without landlines were never listed in the white pages; you opted in by purchasing a phone, and could opt out at the time of purchase and any time thereafter. Perhaps it was a bad default, but avoiding being listed was an accessible option.
          • embeddedsystems 6y ago
            Unfortunately, this isn't the case in 2010+, where the WP site purchases tons of info from data brokers to sell. You don't need a landline or to opt in.
            • dleslie 6y ago
              That sounds like it might be prohibited by EU and Canadian law.
              • embeddedsystems 6y ago
                I do a bunch of stuff in the gaming space, and WP has been one of the bigger causes of pain for streamers. Often separate 2FA-only - to prevent account hijacks - cellphones that are paid monthly and used nowhere else still show up, and the result is attempted murder (via swatting). This happens so frequently it's absurd. None of this is opt in, all of it is extremely unwanted, and those companies really should not exist.
                • dleslie 6y ago
                  How are the swatters getting access to the phone number if it's used nowhere else? Disclaimer: I also work in gaming, and deal with streamer security.
                  • embeddedsystems 6y ago
                    WP's site helpfully tries to show "this person's other phone numbers". My guess is it's acquired via credit institutions when you use that number for 2FA with a bank (since honestly, what the hell, virtually no bank supports U2F/TOTP 2FA and demand phone numbers, ugh) I don't know how they match it in the backend, often it's wrong (and results in innocent parties being attacked). I usually recommend completely prepaid lines for this to prevent hijackers from using the good old social engineering trick to hijack their accounts via customer service by providing last 4 of various identifiers. But these still eventually show up after you add the number to enough 'traditional' accounts. One of my friends (female, streamer) has gotten police at her house at 3 am with guns drawn so many times it's ridiculous. At least in many parts of, if not the entire US, trying to swat someone is legitimately trying to do your hardest to murder them. This honestly should be made illegal, there is no reason for these services to exist, or for public records to be made available at all other than rate limited, in person without the ability to take a copy. Exceptions can be made for elected officials.
• whatshisface 6y ago
  Journalists have a social norm that it's okay to investigate people and publish their details, and as the rest of us come around to seeing that as invasive and rude, they're lagging a bit behind. (See also: The slate star codex guy.)
  • chokeartist 6y ago
    No, journalists are parasites. Nothing different than a Chatty Cathy in high-school.
  • dspillett 6y ago
    If I ever get unwanted press attention (not likely, they would be _really_ dredging the barrel if anything in my life was deemed interesting enough!) and that "peoples right to know" argument is used as a defence, I'm immediately hiring PIs to investigate the "journalist"'s life in detail and publishing the results. The people have a right to know about the lives of the people defending their right to know about people's lives…
  • mcherm 6y ago
    No, journalists do NOT have that norm. Which is why the NY Times' behavior in the case you refer to was criticized in many journalism circles. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/slate-star-codex-and-silicon-valleys-war-against-the-media https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/slate-st... [2] https://reason.com/2020/06/24/slate-star-codex-dox-scott-alexander-new-york-times/ https://reason.com/2020/06/24/slate-star-codex-dox-scott-ale... [3] https://arcdigital.media/slate-star-codex-and-the-gray-ladys-decay-e213725ebd8a https://arcdigital.media/slate-star-codex-and-the-gray-ladys...
  • the_af 6y ago
    The author of the article didn't really publish any details about Ban Tran's life except she worked at this videogame company about 40 years ago and took part in the development of this game Wabbit. Doesn't seem intrusive to me. There's no real personal information, and I'd like to think this documentary maker would ask Ban Tran for permission to publish more details if he ever manages to contact her. Let's not go for the pitch forks so readily, shall we?
• the_af 6y ago
  > why is this kind of harassment and stalking acceptable in any way I don't think someone making a documentary about pioneers in any given subject -- in this case, women and female characters in early videogames -- would be engaging in "harassment and stalking" because he's trying to contact said pioneers who might still be alive. Now, if once contacted the subject said she didn't want to appear in the documentary, her wish must be respected. But without contacting her, how can the documentary maker know?
• LocalH 6y ago
  Documenting that someone did something pioneering in their field is not harassment and stalking, good lord.
  • andi999 6y ago
    But they put the bar really low. Of course you can try to find that person, and have an interview, but a public search? I mean if Wozniak would have disappeared in the 80s, ok, but a random computer game designer?
    • the_af 6y ago
      So is your argument that this particular person, Ban Tran, is not noteworthy enough and therefore not worth tracking down for a documentary about women in videogames? What part of the article in particular do you think puts "the bar really low"? I don't see it. It seems respectful and not at all intrusive, well within the subject matter and not including extraneous or irrelevant personal information.
      • andi999 6y ago
        That's not what I meant. I meant tracking down is ok, but not public search. I think it is a privacy invasion, but famous/very noteworthy person have to bear with it (at least that's normally what society agreed about), but normal people at least shd be protected from that. I meant her involvement in the video industry does not justify such privacy invasion.
        • LocalH 6y ago
          By virtue of what she accomplished, she is noteworthy. If she is found and expresses no wish to communicate on the topic, then it would become harassment.
• mcguire 6y ago
  This is an excellent argument if you are trying to deny that women were in involved in video games in any way.
  • ev1 6y ago
    Trying to get as many people as possible and asking on social media to help you "find" someone these days is practically a death sentence, regardless of gender. Especially in gaming. I legitimately don't understand how that kind of ask is not harassment. You know the type of people that will surface when you put that ask out there. I understand the part where they would like to know a bit more about it, but sending pages and pages of physical letters, at least to me, I find this creepy and weird/obsessive The people that are accusing me of trying to remove women or some 'damsel in distress' thing don't seem to understand that in the gaming space, people calling in threats or attempting to kill you in person because you made a disliked game balance change is real, applies to males, and is a baseline behaviour, or that females in gaming are subject to significantly worse harassment by orders of magnitude; look at the cesspool that is/was pokimanehot.
    • Niksko 6y ago
      Your argument makes sense, except this is somebody who published a game that almost nobody knows about. You're assuming the worst case scenario (that finding this person leads to huge amounts of harassment), when the likelihood of that seems slim to none.
• undefined1 6y ago
  why are you assuming harassment and pushing a damsel in distress narrative?
• chrisco255 6y ago
  That's odd, because one of my favorite game designers from the 80s was Roberta Williams, of the King's Quest series, who still has a fond group of fans despite being out of the industry more or less for the past couple of decades. https://www.sierragamers.com/roberta-williams/ https://www.sierragamers.com/roberta-williams/