5 ms·

Yeah, the four year thing is a great point. I got a psychology degree, which definitely could've been done in three (I know this because I switched sophomore ye

Yeah, the four year thing is a great point. I got a psychology degree, which definitely could've been done in three (I know this because I switched sophomore year). I have friends in hard sciences whose mental health probably would've been waaaaaay better if they spent 5-6 years on their degree.

ryandrake 6y ago
It might be different now, but I remember my computer engineering degree could have probably been done in 3 years, if not for 1. the artificial dependency/prerequisite tree requiring you to take certain courses in a certain order and 2. all the required filler courses you needed to take in order to meet the university's arbitrary definition of well-roundedness. I just want to learn how to write compliers and how a MOSFET works, but you want me to take university-level theater? I could learn theater on my own if I wanted to.
- evilduck 6y ago
  TBF you can learn how MOSFETs and compilers work on your own too, you don't need college courses for those either. A higher education degree is a package deal and isn't necessarily intended to be a vocational training course, for better or for worse.
  - taurath 6y ago
    But of course businesses do treat it as a vocational course if they gatekeeper based on that degree. The actual value on the job is different than in the interview room, a fact that perpetuates inequality. I’m a counterpoint in that I’ve no degree but have done well, but I can’t find myself recommending self learning because the barrier to initial entry to industry is so high.
    - agar 6y ago
      Have you considered that one reason businesses gatekeep based on the degree is /because/ of the well-roundedness that comes from a university education instead of a trade school or online learning? Many benefits are difficult to quantify, but still measurable during an interview: presentation skills, discussions of how you overcome obstacles, demonstrable research into the hiring organization, insightful questions you ask, active listening skills, collaboration skills articulated through example and past experience, etc. If an interview is exclusively writing code on a whiteboard, that says a lot of what will be asked of you during the job. Good fit for some, poor fit for others.
      - foolinaround 6y ago
        the business just did not have a good filtering (recruitment) function - either time or expertise, and so decided to use other signals, like college degrees, etc.
  - packagetheft 6y ago
    You can get a very simplified and overall summary of a compiler and mosfet but you won't necessarily be learning it. Knowing the basic of a mosfet is very different from actually getting hands on experience and taping out a 7nm chip.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  >> I just want to learn how to write compliers and how a MOSFET works, but you want me to take university-level theater? I could learn theater on my own if I wanted to. Ya, and the acting students can learn about "compliers" online too. Outside of a garage startup, an engineer is useless if they cannot integrate into a larger team through the spoken and written word. I've run into BS students who haven't read a book since highschool. I've met compsci masters students who still panic if asked to stand up and explain their work to a large group. If a few hours learning about theatre helps solidify your language and presentation abilities, maybe it should be mandatory.
  - foolinaround 6y ago
    while communication skills are essential, needing a theatre program is a stretch. Students should just join a toastmasters
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      I was required to take public speaking as part of my degree.
      - foolinaround 6y ago
        even this is redundant with its exorbitant cost. there are orgs doing this already, allow a membership and its completion of x speeches to count, etc. when we are paring costs, its best to keep the colleges to the very bare minimum of what they do well.
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      Well, the one thing we can all agree on is that football has no place in education. I have never played it, don't watch it, and therefore it has never done anyone any good anywhere.

ryandrake 6y ago

It might be different now, but I remember my computer engineering degree could have probably been done in 3 years, if not for 1. the artificial dependency/prerequisite tree requiring you to take certain courses in a certain order and 2. all the required filler courses you needed to take in order to meet the university's arbitrary definition of well-roundedness. I just want to learn how to write compliers and how a MOSFET works, but you want me to take university-level theater? I could learn theater on my own if I wanted to.

evilduck 6y ago
TBF you can learn how MOSFETs and compilers work on your own too, you don't need college courses for those either. A higher education degree is a package deal and isn't necessarily intended to be a vocational training course, for better or for worse.
- taurath 6y ago
  But of course businesses do treat it as a vocational course if they gatekeeper based on that degree. The actual value on the job is different than in the interview room, a fact that perpetuates inequality. I’m a counterpoint in that I’ve no degree but have done well, but I can’t find myself recommending self learning because the barrier to initial entry to industry is so high.
  - agar 6y ago
    Have you considered that one reason businesses gatekeep based on the degree is /because/ of the well-roundedness that comes from a university education instead of a trade school or online learning? Many benefits are difficult to quantify, but still measurable during an interview: presentation skills, discussions of how you overcome obstacles, demonstrable research into the hiring organization, insightful questions you ask, active listening skills, collaboration skills articulated through example and past experience, etc. If an interview is exclusively writing code on a whiteboard, that says a lot of what will be asked of you during the job. Good fit for some, poor fit for others.
    - foolinaround 6y ago
      the business just did not have a good filtering (recruitment) function - either time or expertise, and so decided to use other signals, like college degrees, etc.
- packagetheft 6y ago
  You can get a very simplified and overall summary of a compiler and mosfet but you won't necessarily be learning it. Knowing the basic of a mosfet is very different from actually getting hands on experience and taping out a 7nm chip.
sandworm101 6y ago
>> I just want to learn how to write compliers and how a MOSFET works, but you want me to take university-level theater? I could learn theater on my own if I wanted to. Ya, and the acting students can learn about "compliers" online too. Outside of a garage startup, an engineer is useless if they cannot integrate into a larger team through the spoken and written word. I've run into BS students who haven't read a book since highschool. I've met compsci masters students who still panic if asked to stand up and explain their work to a large group. If a few hours learning about theatre helps solidify your language and presentation abilities, maybe it should be mandatory.
- foolinaround 6y ago
  while communication skills are essential, needing a theatre program is a stretch. Students should just join a toastmasters
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    I was required to take public speaking as part of my degree.
    - foolinaround 6y ago
      even this is redundant with its exorbitant cost. there are orgs doing this already, allow a membership and its completion of x speeches to count, etc. when we are paring costs, its best to keep the colleges to the very bare minimum of what they do well.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Well, the one thing we can all agree on is that football has no place in education. I have never played it, don't watch it, and therefore it has never done anyone any good anywhere.