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(I’m one of the developers of this feature and co-author of the blog posts) This is a great question and I’m glad you found the answer, you probably understand
by johannh 6y ago
(I’m one of the developers of this feature and co-author of the blog posts)
This is a great question and I’m glad you found the answer, you probably understand that for many blog posts we avoid going into too much technical detail.
To answer your final question, there is no hardcoded allow-list for State Partitioning. The heuristics as described on MDN are accurate.
- 4cao 6y agoThank you for your clarification, and your work on Firefox. I guess that clears it up.
- stavros 6y agoHave you considered using something like Expounder (https://skorokithakis.github.io/expounder/ https://skorokithakis.github.io/expounder/) in your posts? (Disclosure, I made it but it's a small open source lib). I don't see why we can have full-blown web apps but our text needs to be very specifically just text these days.
- atleta 6y agoCool! I've been thinking of a similar solution to add to my (planned ;) ) longer blog posts. I'm guilty of going into the details too much sometimes.
- StavrosK 6y agoSame here, and I didn't like the tradeoff, so I figured I'd solve it with the power of T E C H N O L O G Y.
- withinboredom 6y agoThis looks amazing. Would you mind if I packaged this in a WordPress plugin?
- StavrosK 6y agoNot at all, go for it!
- withinboredom 6y agoAwesome. Just a heads up, I've already finished it and just submitted it. HOWEVER, the plugin has to be licensed as GPLv2, but it shouldn't affect your license (since it's just using your code as a library). I'd feel better about it (and it will probably be smoother sailing during the review process) if I could submit your names as authors on the plugin. If you want to be listed as an author, just drop over to https://github.com/withinboredom/expounder-wordpress/tree/master/plugin https://github.com/withinboredom/expounder-wordpress/tree/ma... and let me know your wordpress.org user names in an issue.
- StavrosK 6y agoThanks! I don't think either of us have a Wordpress username, but it'd be great if you could include a link to the repo in the description. Thanks again for your help!
- withinboredom 6y agoWill do!
- accounted 6y agoI would like this as well, please share once you do.
- withinboredom 6y agoI've submitted it to the WordPress.org plugins directory, but you can download it right now from the repo in the sibling comment.
- chrisweekly 6y agoYes, this! Your lib looks awesome. Thanks for publishing it and sharing here!
- StavrosK 6y agoThank you!
- tpoacher 6y agoI love this, but I'm a bit surprised that you do not include the ability to "unexpound" an "expounded" term. Is that intentional? If I were reading a technical text, I would definitely end up reading most paragraphs at least twice. It would make no sense to keep the expounded terms in the second time; I'd be tempted to hide them back as soon as I was finished with them the first time.
- StavrosK 6y agoYes, it is intentional. The functionality actually exists, it's just not mentioned: https://github.com/skorokithakis/expounder/blob/master/examples/example-default-collapsible.html https://github.com/skorokithakis/expounder/blob/master/examp... It's because, once clicked, the new text should become part of the old, and that's it. Presumably you've already read it, and I don't want to make the viewer have to re-collapse the links every time. Your use case makes sense, though, which is why the feature was included. Maybe I should mention it in the README.
- tannhaeuser 6y agoHasn't HTML the summary and details elements for this specifically, or am I overlooking something?
- StavrosK 6y agoAs far as I know, those work quite differently.
- tpoacher 6y agoNot the author, but presumably you're overlooking the fact that the expounded term doesn't necessarily have to be "inside" or even "neighbouring" to the details element. The author's intent here is to have terms explained in the text explicitly in such a way that it would 'augment' the text with an explanation somewhere further down the line, but not necessarily "in-place". It is also intended for text specifically, rather than replacing one element with another. I agree that display/summary are similar in spirit though, I had not come across those before.
- gwern 6y ago<abbr>/<defn> are also quite relevant, and would fit a number of the example uses better (like the definition of 'atoms').
- wonder_er 6y agoThis is super cool! I've only recently discovered that Markdown has footnotes, and I've gone to down adding footnotes everywhere. I use Jekyll + markdown on my website, and I now have lots of fun adding footnotes to my writing. I added a "footnote tutorial" for readers on https://josh.works/turing-backend-prep-01-intro#why-this-rubybackend-software-engineering-prep-series-exists https://josh.works/turing-backend-prep-01-intro#why-this-rub..., to help them learn how to navigate the footnotes. I _love_ your library, and I love the problem that you're solving with it. Along the way, I've looked at Gwern's sidenotes[0] and Nate Berkapec's "footnotes"/sidenotes [1]. I eventually want to do something more "in-line", like what you've down with Expounder, but I've been satiated with markdown footnotes for now. [0]: https://www.gwern.net/Sidenotes# https://www.gwern.net/Sidenotes# [1]: https://www.nateberkopec.com/blog/2017/03/10/how-i-made-self-publishing-about-ruby-on-rails.html https://www.nateberkopec.com/blog/2017/03/10/how-i-made-self...
- gknoy 6y agoOh, wow. The Sidenotes discussion from Gwern that you linked is _phenomenal_. Thank you for sharing these.
- StavrosK 6y agoThank you! I used to use footnotes too, but I didn't like how they took you out of the flow of the text. Expounder aims to specifically let users stay in the flow of reading, which is why one of the core instructions is that the text should work in context, as if it were never hidden.
- ghaff 6y agoI miss footnotes on the printed page because, in addition to references (where they're probably better as endnotes to be honest) I find they're great to use for parentheticals that bulletproof a point, add some background that's not essential to a point being made, etc. But these latter uses work significantly less well in a blog post or ebook.
- mrec 6y agoIt's good to see experiments along these lines. I really like Wikipedia's recent-ish rich tooltips on link mouseover, and the HTML <summary>/<details> elements deserve to be more widely known. From the demo it look as if Expounder is one-way - once you've expanded something, you can't collapse it again. Is that correct?
- prox 6y agoI wonder what this does to SEO, does the hidden text get indexed, and is it not picked up as a dark pattern by crawlers?
- clankyclanker 6y agoIs there support for an expound-all button on a page? I definitely have days where I just want to also read the details and don’t want to click a dozen times while I’m reading.
- StavrosK 6y agoNot currently, but it shouldn't be hard to add a button with one line of JS to add the required CSS class to all the elements. This might defeat the purpose, though, as it's kind of intended to save you from reading things you already know.
- samstave 6y agoThat is FN DOPE. Wikipedia should adopt it in full.
- gostsamo 6y agoHi, can you consider adding some accessibility to the library? Currently, I don't have a way to know that a term could be expanded, because the signal seems to be visual only and not detectable via a screen reader. Adding aria-pressed might be the solution, but I'm not an expert, just an user.
- dmix 6y agoI feel like the inserted text should be highlighted with a light yellow background or some indicator. Just appearing like that inline seems a bit funky or unexpected. But I see there is a css class which is nice. Just a simple rgba(x,x,x,0.5) where the x’s are the usual yellow height.
- 7800 6y agoI know that you didn’t mean to completely throw the conversation from Firefox to Expounder, but you succeeded. Mozilla who? That’s where we are now.
- psychoslave 6y agoI like how it unfold the text, but it doesn't give visual hint on what was unfolded, and doesn't provide a way to fold it again, it seems. Be it topographic emphasize or coloring, there should be an hint. And clicking the text thus emphasized should collapse it. That's my opinion, otherwise, nice done.
- StavrosK 6y agoIt should animate the text while unfolding, but, other than that, there's no need to know what was unfolded. You just click what you don't know and eventually read the relevant info!
- amai 6y agoWhy use this instead of footnotes? For example in these Feynman lectures below the footnotes and references to formulas and images activate then you hover over it. These footnote can even include graphics and formulas. https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/III_21.html https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/III_21.html
- StavrosK 6y agoTo me, footnotes serve a different purpose, e.g. linking to papers, like the Feynman lectures site does. Expounder is more about indicating that you don't know something, so the text itself can change to accommodate you.
- heleninboodler 6y agoHave you considered that "Total Cookie Protection / Isolation Partition" would be a much better name? :D
- appleflaxen 6y ago> you probably understand that for many blog posts we avoid going into too much technical detail. Not really... for a highly technical issue like this, at a minimum you should link to the technical details. There really is no excuse for making every reader of your blog who wants to know the details dig for them independently. imo, at least.
- johannh 6y agoBoth the more technical blog post as well as the MDN page are linked shortly after that paragraph.
- urza 6y agoThis should have always been the only way it worked. Plus it should be easier to create white lists of allowed websites and all other cookies delete with every broswer restart. I know it is possible with Firefox but you need to add websites to whitelist manually in deep settings. At least there are some extensions that make it easier, like CookieAutoDelete https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autodelete/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autode...
- rock_artist 6y agoWhat I wonder/concern is how can one decide for legit use. This also sounds like a possibility for discriminating small players with legit use. (similar to Microsoft's SmartScreen) Would be great to know how are those concerns handled?
- mjevans 6y agoI would like something like, each site by default gets a bucket by name. If cookies from another bucket should be shared with other sites, or might be seen when requested by a cross-site load from another site, ask the user a four choice question. "Allow (site) to see cookies from (site)?" Always Allow, Just this time, Ask later, Always Deny