5 ms·

> To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware. Nintendo is a member of the

by bogwog 6y ago

> To that extent that Nintendo has any influence in this area, I'd say they're quite supportive of people using their old hardware. Nintendo is a member of the Entertainment Software Association (https://www.theesa.com/ https://www.theesa.com/), which AFAIK is the main entity lobbying to keep console jailbreaking illegal. Not to mention the fact that Nintendo shuts down online services and digital stores for old consoles, which means that you can't even download games you've purchased anymore. Also, the issue isn't about whether Nintendo wants people to play old games on old hardware, it's that Nintendo doesn't want you to play new software on old hardware, and that they're actually able to enforce this through the DMCA's arbitrary special restrictions for video game consoles (by comparison, jailbreaking phones is perfectly legal under the DMCA) That both suppresses competition, directly hurts consumers, and is just wasteful.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
But I don't think a logical extension from that is "Nintendo wants these to end up in a landfill."
- bogwog 6y ago
  Why not? * If these consoles have no more utility, people will throw them away, and they will end up in a landfill. When this happens, they will want to buy a new console to play new games, and Nintendo will sell it to them. * With more consoles in the trash, there will be less circulating in the world, creating a shortage and inflating the value of old IP. They can profit off of this by re-releasing or re-mastering those old games on new consoles (until those too are deprecated and the cycle repeats) * Nintendo is taking actions to deteriorate the utility of peoples' old consoles. They do this by halting development of new games for it, shutting down online services, and shutting down digital sales of games. * Nintendo is funding a lobbyist group that is fighting to prevent consumers from modifying their hardware to extend its useful life * If people are allowed to jailbreak their console, a "homebrew" software community may take off, which could lead to customers willing to pay money for software by third party publishers; aka, competition for Nintendo within their own walled garden. Based on those observations, it's obvious what Nintendo's position on the issue is. The path of least resistance and most profit is to encourage (or force) customers to throw their old consoles away and buy new ones. Maybe they don't care if it specifically goes to a landfill, but they certainly want it in the trash.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Because the type of person who tracks down an SNES and an original copy of Super Mario World on eBay is more likely to also buy a Nintendo Switch and Super Mario Odyssey. It's not an either-or. Nintendo's brand benefits from the level of affection people hold for old consoles, and so it's in their interest to have a lively second-hand market. I don't think Nintendo cares enough to keep digital services running indefinitely, which is a shame. They did keep the Wii Shop Channel up until 2019, which is a considerable lifespan for a 2006 console. I've also never seen Nintendo take steps to curb mods for out-of-production hardware. Their hostility is reserved for emulators (because almost no one actually uses those to play roms they ripped themselves), and for mods of products they're actively producing. To be clear, I'm opposed to closed hardware, and the ESA's stance. But I do read Nintendo's actions as broadly "supportive" of their old products, for understandable reasons. The caveat is that Nintendo wants you to use those products as designed—to play original, Nintendo-licensed cartridges on original Nintendo hardware. And I'd hazard a guess that a significantly smaller percentage of old working Nintendo consoles end up in landfills than old working iPhones.

by bogwog 6y ago

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

But I don't think a logical extension from that is "Nintendo wants these to end up in a landfill."

bogwog 6y ago
Why not? * If these consoles have no more utility, people will throw them away, and they will end up in a landfill. When this happens, they will want to buy a new console to play new games, and Nintendo will sell it to them. * With more consoles in the trash, there will be less circulating in the world, creating a shortage and inflating the value of old IP. They can profit off of this by re-releasing or re-mastering those old games on new consoles (until those too are deprecated and the cycle repeats) * Nintendo is taking actions to deteriorate the utility of peoples' old consoles. They do this by halting development of new games for it, shutting down online services, and shutting down digital sales of games. * Nintendo is funding a lobbyist group that is fighting to prevent consumers from modifying their hardware to extend its useful life * If people are allowed to jailbreak their console, a "homebrew" software community may take off, which could lead to customers willing to pay money for software by third party publishers; aka, competition for Nintendo within their own walled garden. Based on those observations, it's obvious what Nintendo's position on the issue is. The path of least resistance and most profit is to encourage (or force) customers to throw their old consoles away and buy new ones. Maybe they don't care if it specifically goes to a landfill, but they certainly want it in the trash.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Because the type of person who tracks down an SNES and an original copy of Super Mario World on eBay is more likely to also buy a Nintendo Switch and Super Mario Odyssey. It's not an either-or. Nintendo's brand benefits from the level of affection people hold for old consoles, and so it's in their interest to have a lively second-hand market. I don't think Nintendo cares enough to keep digital services running indefinitely, which is a shame. They did keep the Wii Shop Channel up until 2019, which is a considerable lifespan for a 2006 console. I've also never seen Nintendo take steps to curb mods for out-of-production hardware. Their hostility is reserved for emulators (because almost no one actually uses those to play roms they ripped themselves), and for mods of products they're actively producing. To be clear, I'm opposed to closed hardware, and the ESA's stance. But I do read Nintendo's actions as broadly "supportive" of their old products, for understandable reasons. The caveat is that Nintendo wants you to use those products as designed—to play original, Nintendo-licensed cartridges on original Nintendo hardware. And I'd hazard a guess that a significantly smaller percentage of old working Nintendo consoles end up in landfills than old working iPhones.