6 ms·

I wonder if it's Teflon in general or damaged Teflon pans - many people do not used them correctly, overheat them and have damaged coatings that leak chemicals.

by voqv 6y ago

I wonder if it's Teflon in general or damaged Teflon pans - many people do not used them correctly, overheat them and have damaged coatings that leak chemicals. You can go check perfectly fine pans having 1-star Amazon reviews "Pan sticking after a month!".

forgotmypw17 6y ago
Based on random website I found googling, it starts to break down and release PFOA around 300F, which is easy to achieve if the pan is not filled with water.
- gruez 6y ago
  Do you have your units mixed up? Wikipedia seems to have a different range: >While PTFE is stable and nontoxic at lower temperatures, it begins to deteriorate after the temperature of cookware reaches about 260 °C (500 °F), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    I used a different source than the one you link. 500F is not difficult for a frying pan to reach either. The same Wikipedia page also reads: >Pyrolysis of PTFE is detectable at 200 °C (392 °F), and it evolves several fluorocarbon gases and a sublimate. My completely unscientific, unsubstantiated guess, based purely on obsessively researching food safety for years, is that it begins to leach at a much lower temperature.
    - gruez 6y ago
      > I used a different source than the one you link. 500F is not difficult for a frying pan to reach either. Most vegetable oils smoke before 500F. If you're just frying up an egg or sauteing some vegetables you'll be fine. >The same Wikipedia page also reads: The sentence after it: >An animal study conducted in 1955 concluded that it is unlikely that these products would be generated in amounts significant to health at temperatures below 250 °C (482 °F).[
      - forgotmypw17 6y ago
        Without reading that study, who it was funded by, how it was conducted, I choose to err on the side of caution. In other words, I don't believe that statement for a microsecond, especially coming from 1955.
        gruez 6y ago
        >I don't believe that statement for a microsecond, especially coming from 1955. but you're willing to believe unsourced statements based on your own intuition?
        forgotmypw17 6y ago
        I provided a credible source in another reply to your comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238226 But yes, I'll side with my intuition when it comes to my health and those dependent on me. Just because someone says the gun is not loaded...
  - abledon 6y ago
    who the heck is getting their pans to 260C? ? ? Frying eggs... it only needs to get so hot?
    - jonplackett 6y ago
      A lot of people just don't treat their eggs well.
slipper 6y ago
In my experience, Teflon will always be scratched. Yes, in theory you could "use it correctly", but nobody ever does. So it's better to simply not have them.
- danlugo92 6y ago
  Whats a good alternative? The ceramic ones?
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    Enamel Ceramic Cast iron Stainless steel In that order, in my opinion.
    - rblatz 6y ago
      You left out the two I’ve been considering, hard anodized and high carbon steel. Any reason why?
      - forgotmypw17 6y ago
        I just wrote down what I could remember and have experience with. I don't buy frying pans, so I take what I can get.
      - phoenixfangor 6y ago
        We've switched to carbon steel from cast iron; while it's easy to warp the carbon steel (and we have), it still works fairly well on our electric range. The seasoning is just as good as cast iron. A heavier high carbon steel pan might avoid the warping issue, but ours are all pretty thin.
  - petertodd 6y ago
    Personally I just use cheap and simple solid stainless steel cookware, and scrub aggressively. Chainmail scrubbers work well for really baked on stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Knapp-Made-CM-Scrubber-Stainless/dp/B0087UYR1S https://www.amazon.com/Knapp-Made-CM-Scrubber-Stainless/dp/B... I used to have teflon cookware. It's great in theory. But in practice, I find indestructible stuff that you don't have to baby works much better for me. Of course, if you don't have much upper body strength, other approaches may work better.
giantg2 6y ago
Here's something interesting to think about. Did you ever hear of a canary in a coal mine? The miners would take birds in with them to alert them to dangers gasses. If there were dangerous gasses he bird would typically die before the miners did. This is because the bird has very high performance lungs so that they can supply enough oxygen to beat their wings quickly. You basically can't own a bird in an appartment and cook with teflon cookware or run the self clean setting on the oven (they are teflon coated inside) because the fumes will kill them.
- voqv 6y ago
  That last paragraph does not seem to be true. Well only if you're an "an absent-minded person" according to: https://www.petcoach.co/article/teflon-toxicity-ptfe-toxicosis-in-birds-signs-and-preventio/ https://www.petcoach.co/article/teflon-toxicity-ptfe-toxicos...
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Do you really think that people who own nonstick pans are only using them a low and medium settings as the article recommends? Or that most apartments have a vent hood for the stove? Something they don't mention is that the FDA also recommends throwing out nonstick pans made before 2013 (I think that was the year) because the older pans emit more fumes and at lower temperatures. Sure, if you're extremely careful about using it, it's possible. That's why my previous comment wasn't absolute. But the majority of people I've known who use them seem to treat the pans poorly and cook with them at all temperatures. Many times they only own nonstick pans (who has space for multiple sets in an appartment?), and use them at all temperatures.
    - voqv 6y ago
      That's literally what my first comment was saying :) It's kind of crazy how widespread this issue is though.
- somehnguy 6y ago
  I've read this all over the internet but my parents had a bird live very well past the expected bird lifespan and modified nothing about their normal habits (using teflon pans, cleaning the oven, etc) the entire time. The bird's cage was like 15 feet from the oven. Just a single anecdotal data point but I think the risk is extremely overblown.

by voqv 6y ago

forgotmypw17 6y ago

Based on random website I found googling, it starts to break down and release PFOA around 300F, which is easy to achieve if the pan is not filled with water.

gruez 6y ago
Do you have your units mixed up? Wikipedia seems to have a different range: >While PTFE is stable and nontoxic at lower temperatures, it begins to deteriorate after the temperature of cookware reaches about 260 °C (500 °F), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I used a different source than the one you link. 500F is not difficult for a frying pan to reach either. The same Wikipedia page also reads: >Pyrolysis of PTFE is detectable at 200 °C (392 °F), and it evolves several fluorocarbon gases and a sublimate. My completely unscientific, unsubstantiated guess, based purely on obsessively researching food safety for years, is that it begins to leach at a much lower temperature.
  - gruez 6y ago
    > I used a different source than the one you link. 500F is not difficult for a frying pan to reach either. Most vegetable oils smoke before 500F. If you're just frying up an egg or sauteing some vegetables you'll be fine. >The same Wikipedia page also reads: The sentence after it: >An animal study conducted in 1955 concluded that it is unlikely that these products would be generated in amounts significant to health at temperatures below 250 °C (482 °F).[
    - forgotmypw17 6y ago
      Without reading that study, who it was funded by, how it was conducted, I choose to err on the side of caution. In other words, I don't believe that statement for a microsecond, especially coming from 1955.
      - gruez 6y ago
        >I don't believe that statement for a microsecond, especially coming from 1955. but you're willing to believe unsourced statements based on your own intuition?
        forgotmypw17 6y ago
        I provided a credible source in another reply to your comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238226 But yes, I'll side with my intuition when it comes to my health and those dependent on me. Just because someone says the gun is not loaded...
- abledon 6y ago
  who the heck is getting their pans to 260C? ? ? Frying eggs... it only needs to get so hot?
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    A lot of people just don't treat their eggs well.

slipper 6y ago

In my experience, Teflon will always be scratched. Yes, in theory you could "use it correctly", but nobody ever does. So it's better to simply not have them.

danlugo92 6y ago
Whats a good alternative? The ceramic ones?
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  Enamel Ceramic Cast iron Stainless steel In that order, in my opinion.
  - rblatz 6y ago
    You left out the two I’ve been considering, hard anodized and high carbon steel. Any reason why?
    - forgotmypw17 6y ago
      I just wrote down what I could remember and have experience with. I don't buy frying pans, so I take what I can get.
    - phoenixfangor 6y ago
      We've switched to carbon steel from cast iron; while it's easy to warp the carbon steel (and we have), it still works fairly well on our electric range. The seasoning is just as good as cast iron. A heavier high carbon steel pan might avoid the warping issue, but ours are all pretty thin.
- petertodd 6y ago
  Personally I just use cheap and simple solid stainless steel cookware, and scrub aggressively. Chainmail scrubbers work well for really baked on stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Knapp-Made-CM-Scrubber-Stainless/dp/B0087UYR1S https://www.amazon.com/Knapp-Made-CM-Scrubber-Stainless/dp/B... I used to have teflon cookware. It's great in theory. But in practice, I find indestructible stuff that you don't have to baby works much better for me. Of course, if you don't have much upper body strength, other approaches may work better.

giantg2 6y ago

Here's something interesting to think about. Did you ever hear of a canary in a coal mine? The miners would take birds in with them to alert them to dangers gasses. If there were dangerous gasses he bird would typically die before the miners did. This is because the bird has very high performance lungs so that they can supply enough oxygen to beat their wings quickly. You basically can't own a bird in an appartment and cook with teflon cookware or run the self clean setting on the oven (they are teflon coated inside) because the fumes will kill them.

voqv 6y ago
That last paragraph does not seem to be true. Well only if you're an "an absent-minded person" according to: https://www.petcoach.co/article/teflon-toxicity-ptfe-toxicosis-in-birds-signs-and-preventio/ https://www.petcoach.co/article/teflon-toxicity-ptfe-toxicos...
- giantg2 6y ago
  Do you really think that people who own nonstick pans are only using them a low and medium settings as the article recommends? Or that most apartments have a vent hood for the stove? Something they don't mention is that the FDA also recommends throwing out nonstick pans made before 2013 (I think that was the year) because the older pans emit more fumes and at lower temperatures. Sure, if you're extremely careful about using it, it's possible. That's why my previous comment wasn't absolute. But the majority of people I've known who use them seem to treat the pans poorly and cook with them at all temperatures. Many times they only own nonstick pans (who has space for multiple sets in an appartment?), and use them at all temperatures.
  - voqv 6y ago
    That's literally what my first comment was saying :) It's kind of crazy how widespread this issue is though.
somehnguy 6y ago
I've read this all over the internet but my parents had a bird live very well past the expected bird lifespan and modified nothing about their normal habits (using teflon pans, cleaning the oven, etc) the entire time. The bird's cage was like 15 feet from the oven. Just a single anecdotal data point but I think the risk is extremely overblown.