4 ms·

Can these endocrine disruptors also contribute to gender dysphoria?

by esja 6y ago

fogihujy 6y ago
It sounds plausible that anything with the ability to disturb hormone production could also indirectly affect things like sexuality and one's gender identity. A quick googling suggests it has been suggested before, and that it's a highly controversial topic as it indicates that something is inherently wrong with being transgender. At best, it's something that needs much more research before any conclusions can be drawn.
- zug_zug 6y ago
  As somebody with a friend who has gender stuff going on, I can tell you the friend just wants an honest answer out of science and couldn't care less about indirect implications.
  - fogihujy 6y ago
    It doesn't affect me at all either, but I'd still be cautious before making any claims hinting that being trans is a medical condition -- if it does indeed turn out to be related, then it could turn a lot of people's lives upside down.
    - pb7 6y ago
      > being trans is a medical condition Curious, what else is it if not that? Eczema is also a medical condition too but we don't shame people for having it. Medical conditions shouldn't carry the implication that you're a broken person as a result of it.
      - zug_zug 6y ago
        Terminology is super important. Obviously everything about a person is a biological fact, but "medical condition" implies a certain severity and negativity. It's sort of like asking if being shorter than 6' a medical condition. Or if being unattractive is a medical condition. Obviously not in the common parlance, and anybody who wanted to classify it as such would be seen as a real agitator. I suppose for people who experience full gender dysphoria and want to transition that's probably necessary for sake of insurance coverage. But I think most people who don't feel either gender norm feels right for them (e.g. "genderqueer") prefer not to have a medical label on it.
        pb7 6y ago
        > It's sort of like asking if being shorter than 6' a medical condition. Maybe not 6' but isn't dwarfism considered a medical condition? > Or if being unattractive is a medical condition. Again, most cases not, but things like crooked teeth, cleft lips, acne, etc that could be left alone but are frequently treated because they reduce quality of life are considered medical conditions. I buy the argument that "medical condition" can carry heavy negative connotations, especially for minority populations, but still believe anything that requires medical intervention (like hormone therapy but especially reassignment surgery) qualifies. We should just attack the stigma.
        zug_zug 6y ago
        >> I buy the argument that "medical condition" can carry heavy negative connotations, especially for minority populations, but still believe anything that requires medical intervention (like hormone therapy but especially reassignment surgery) qualifies. Yeah I mean my point is it's mostly just semantics and lines in the sand. But semantics matter emotionally. The important thing if you want to research the hypothesis that xenoestrogens can cause trans is just to not offend people along the way. If phrased right I think both left and right can get behind the sentiment that chemical pollution potentially influencing gender identity is something worth investigating.
        pseudalopex 6y ago
        Dwarfism is a symptom of conditions like growth hormone deficiency. Cleft lip can have complications. Most people don't think of cosmetic conditions when they say medical conditions. Gender dysphoria is considered a medical condition. But people can be trans without it.
kleer001 6y ago
Probably not Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria. That's social. Additionally transexuals have appeared in every extant civilization. Some women have felt more like themselves passing as men and some men have felt more themselves passing as women. From Indian to Chinese to Native Americans there's always been people like that. I'm pretty sure any impression of there being more of them is due to news cycles, fast communications, and increasing overall empathy.
- ReactiveJelly 6y ago
  As mentioned in the sibling comment "it's a highly controversial topic as it indicates that something is inherently wrong with being transgender." Whether ROGD exists or not, there isn't going to be useful discourse about it on public social media, where 99.9% of the time anyone talking about "endocrine disruptors" or "ROGD" or "social contagion" is only using it to invalidate the entire notion of being trans. Sometimes because their child is questioning their gender and they want to shut that down without just having a parent-child conversation about it. Did environmental microplastics and soy milk and Wifi radiation and being friends with trans people make me into a woman? We can raise that hypothesis in good faith, but I'm not going to quit transitioning even if it turns out to be true.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  The evidence for ROGD is 1 study. It assumed teenagers tell their parents everything. And selected for parents who refused to accept their children coming out as trans.
cblconfederate 6y ago
Given that there isn't a dramatic increase of homosexual population, its probably not a major cause. In fact IIRC homosexual men with high T tend to be "more exclusively homosexual". It doesn't help that most research on the subject seems to be from the 70s, and i don't find many recent studies. ( I guess, because contemporary science)
- cwkoss 6y ago
  Gender dysphoria is usually associated with gender identity rather than sexual preference.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    there would be a significant correlation however
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      Only if the mechanism is the same.
      - cblconfederate 6y ago
        I would say that gender identity correlates with sexual preference by definition, regardless of mechanism

Can these endocrine disruptors also contribute to gender dysphoria?

by esja 6y ago

Can these endocrine disruptors also contribute to gender dysphoria?

It sounds plausible that anything with the ability to disturb hormone production could also indirectly affect things like sexuality and one's gender identity. A quick googling suggests it has been suggested before, and that it's a highly controversial topic as it indicates that something is inherently wrong with being transgender. At best, it's something that needs much more research before any conclusions can be drawn.

zug_zug 6y ago
As somebody with a friend who has gender stuff going on, I can tell you the friend just wants an honest answer out of science and couldn't care less about indirect implications.
- fogihujy 6y ago
  It doesn't affect me at all either, but I'd still be cautious before making any claims hinting that being trans is a medical condition -- if it does indeed turn out to be related, then it could turn a lot of people's lives upside down.
  - pb7 6y ago
    > being trans is a medical condition Curious, what else is it if not that? Eczema is also a medical condition too but we don't shame people for having it. Medical conditions shouldn't carry the implication that you're a broken person as a result of it.
    - zug_zug 6y ago
      Terminology is super important. Obviously everything about a person is a biological fact, but "medical condition" implies a certain severity and negativity. It's sort of like asking if being shorter than 6' a medical condition. Or if being unattractive is a medical condition. Obviously not in the common parlance, and anybody who wanted to classify it as such would be seen as a real agitator. I suppose for people who experience full gender dysphoria and want to transition that's probably necessary for sake of insurance coverage. But I think most people who don't feel either gender norm feels right for them (e.g. "genderqueer") prefer not to have a medical label on it.
      - pb7 6y ago
        > It's sort of like asking if being shorter than 6' a medical condition. Maybe not 6' but isn't dwarfism considered a medical condition? > Or if being unattractive is a medical condition. Again, most cases not, but things like crooked teeth, cleft lips, acne, etc that could be left alone but are frequently treated because they reduce quality of life are considered medical conditions. I buy the argument that "medical condition" can carry heavy negative connotations, especially for minority populations, but still believe anything that requires medical intervention (like hormone therapy but especially reassignment surgery) qualifies. We should just attack the stigma.
        zug_zug 6y ago
        >> I buy the argument that "medical condition" can carry heavy negative connotations, especially for minority populations, but still believe anything that requires medical intervention (like hormone therapy but especially reassignment surgery) qualifies. Yeah I mean my point is it's mostly just semantics and lines in the sand. But semantics matter emotionally. The important thing if you want to research the hypothesis that xenoestrogens can cause trans is just to not offend people along the way. If phrased right I think both left and right can get behind the sentiment that chemical pollution potentially influencing gender identity is something worth investigating.
        pseudalopex 6y ago
        Dwarfism is a symptom of conditions like growth hormone deficiency. Cleft lip can have complications. Most people don't think of cosmetic conditions when they say medical conditions. Gender dysphoria is considered a medical condition. But people can be trans without it.

kleer001 6y ago

Probably not Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria. That's social. Additionally transexuals have appeared in every extant civilization. Some women have felt more like themselves passing as men and some men have felt more themselves passing as women. From Indian to Chinese to Native Americans there's always been people like that. I'm pretty sure any impression of there being more of them is due to news cycles, fast communications, and increasing overall empathy.

ReactiveJelly 6y ago
As mentioned in the sibling comment "it's a highly controversial topic as it indicates that something is inherently wrong with being transgender." Whether ROGD exists or not, there isn't going to be useful discourse about it on public social media, where 99.9% of the time anyone talking about "endocrine disruptors" or "ROGD" or "social contagion" is only using it to invalidate the entire notion of being trans. Sometimes because their child is questioning their gender and they want to shut that down without just having a parent-child conversation about it. Did environmental microplastics and soy milk and Wifi radiation and being friends with trans people make me into a woman? We can raise that hypothesis in good faith, but I'm not going to quit transitioning even if it turns out to be true.
pseudalopex 6y ago
The evidence for ROGD is 1 study. It assumed teenagers tell their parents everything. And selected for parents who refused to accept their children coming out as trans.

cblconfederate 6y ago

Given that there isn't a dramatic increase of homosexual population, its probably not a major cause. In fact IIRC homosexual men with high T tend to be "more exclusively homosexual". It doesn't help that most research on the subject seems to be from the 70s, and i don't find many recent studies. ( I guess, because contemporary science)

cwkoss 6y ago
Gender dysphoria is usually associated with gender identity rather than sexual preference.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  there would be a significant correlation however
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Only if the mechanism is the same.
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      I would say that gender identity correlates with sexual preference by definition, regardless of mechanism