8 ms·

They've also eaten soy for much longer than others, literally thousands of years(1) at this point. That's more than long enough to evolve countermeasures if it

They've also eaten soy for much longer than others, literally thousands of years(1) at this point. That's more than long enough to evolve countermeasures if it did have an effect. They also eat soy differently, mainly in products which are fermented. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean#History

tracker1 6y ago
I think a lot of it comes down to how it's processed... fermentation probably made it safer to consume over time. I think the aversion to dietary fat for the past 3 generations combined with refined seed/bean oils has been hugely detrimental to human health as well. Not to mention, even with reductions, we still consume a massive amount of sugar per capita compared to pre-wwii levels.
- dalbasal 6y ago
  >> aversion to dietary fat for the past 3 generations combined with refined seed/bean oils Aye... This is probably the first medically/scientifically prescribed diet for society at large and it has been a disaster.
  - csharptwdec19 6y ago
    And the worst thing is, as we've learned from Big Tobacco, They're -never- going to admit it. Nestle, Kraft, etc. will stop at nothing to make sure they aren't liable for the way they cut costs at the expense of generations of human beings health.
    - dalbasal 6y ago
      They're definitely bad actors, but the whole thing is/was much bigger than just packaged food companies. National medical authorities. Your local doctor or nutritionist. The food pyramid hanging in your classroom. We're not good at mea culpas and the baggage hangs around.
- lupire 6y ago
  Oils are dietary fats though?
  - User23 6y ago
    Refined seed oils are synthetic chemicals that just happen to use seeds as a feedstock in a relatively novel chemical reaction. Yes one can quibble that cooking is a chemical reaction, but it’s one that is both simple and that we’re long since evolved to tolerate. I stick to mechanically produced vegetable oils and animal fats. It’s not only healthier but it tastes better too. However, a healthy diet depends a great deal on your race. A traditional Inuit diet is observably healthy for Inuit persons, but probably best avoided by people like me. However there are no humans that are evolved to eat seed oils.
    - yknuri 6y ago
      Where does one find mechanically produced vegetable oils? I'm piqued, thanks in advance.
      - klyrs 6y ago
        Olive oil is the most obvious one
      - i_haz_rabies 6y ago
        Big mechanical squishers squishing olives.
      - jackyinger 6y ago
        Look for “expeller pressed” on seed oils (canola, etc). Now I see why they’re advertising the method of extraction...
    - macNchz 6y ago
      > However there are no humans that are evolved to eat seed oils. I am cautious about these sorts of issues and typically buy the least processed oils (and foods in general) that I can find, however it is my understanding that humans around the world have been producing and eating (mechanically expressed) sesame seed oil for thousands of years. I can't say whether that has any impact on whether people are "evolved to eat it", but it's certainly not something new: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02859136 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02859136
- jonplackett 6y ago
  It’s crazy isn’t it. So many foods they market as ‘low fat’ they just took out the good fat and replaced it with sugar- which your body immediately turns into fat anyway, and messes up your hormones and insulin sensitivity along the way. And the only oil we’ve introduced into the diet is trans fat which the body mistakes for good fat and just starts building stuff with it, and then it all breaks down and you get heart disease. You couldn’t make it up
DoreenMichele 6y ago
Almost 95 percent of the soybeans grown in the U.S. are genetically modified. https://www.thedailymeal.com/travel/8-most-genetically-modified-crops-slideshow https://www.thedailymeal.com/travel/8-most-genetically-modif... In 2007, over half the world’s soybean crop was genetically modified; a higher percentage than any other crop. https://worldofgenetics.weebly.com/genetically-modified-soybeans.html https://worldofgenetics.weebly.com/genetically-modified-soyb... Asians are probably eating less GMO soy (than Americans) and we don't really know what those genetic modifications do in terms of human health. They are typically made to improve profit in some fashion, not to improve human health.
- mfer 6y ago
  GMO soy is treated with different pesticides than non-GMO. What we eat still has some of the pesticide in it. It’s worth a considering the impact of the pesticide, too
- eyko 6y ago
  > They are typically made to improve profit in some fashion, not to improve human health. The main goals of GMOs are to increase yield and protect against disease / pests, which is practically the same goal we've had for thousands of years of crop domestication. Take for instance wild pre-domesticated maize vs present day non-GMO maize[1] and you'll see what "natural" crop selection does. Not only do we select for strains that are healthier and with more defenses, we also select strains that give us more bang for buck. Over the years, we've also selected for: texture, size, adaptability to different climates and soil compositions, lower concentration of toxic compounds, etc. Cassava and potatoes, for instance, can be deadly in their "natural" variety, and needed some "help" to get to the varieties we eat today. GMOs are simply the result of applying modern science in combination with what we've learnt from different cultures over thousands of years, to speed this process and hopefully prevent famine and starvation. I'm not saying all GMOs are good for you, but I just wanted to counter this idea that we don't know what effects GMOs have on us -- we've been eating GMOs for millenia. Edit: I should also strain that I fully support questioning GMOs and holding them to a high standard as a society, especially when the modifications are made for reasons which are to a high degree simply for profit. One example of that would be crops that are engineered to be infertile / yield no seeds. PS: I'm more concerned about chemical pesticides, especially in the scale at which they're used. Microplastics, heavy metals, soil depletion, etc. Many modern agricultural practices are not good for the environment, objectively speaking. But I wouldn't just blindly lump GMO in the same group just because it's also modern. 1. https://www.newswise.com/articles/tiny-genetic-tweak-unlocked-corn-kernels-during-domestication https://www.newswise.com/articles/tiny-genetic-tweak-unlocke...
tubularhells 6y ago
You mean the soyboys have been out evolved and outbred by the tofu eating Chadhuris?
fpoling 6y ago
One does not need 1000 years to evolve. One generation where soy intolerance leads to death through famine/malnutrition is enough. That is why cultural differences are so important to take into account.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  That first sentence is an awful way to kick off a comment about population genetics.
  - hnuser123456 6y ago
    The point is if we make a population-wide change within a generation, we will see natural selection within the next. Not sure what your point is.
lupire 6y ago
So when bullies bully people for eating tofu, they being especially stupid because tofu is the one form of soy that isn't "anti-masculine"?
- petertodd 6y ago
  There are many types of tofu, only some of which are fermented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Varieties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Varieties
jtdev 6y ago
They also ferment a great deal of the soy they consume.

tracker1 6y ago

I think a lot of it comes down to how it's processed... fermentation probably made it safer to consume over time. I think the aversion to dietary fat for the past 3 generations combined with refined seed/bean oils has been hugely detrimental to human health as well. Not to mention, even with reductions, we still consume a massive amount of sugar per capita compared to pre-wwii levels.

dalbasal 6y ago
>> aversion to dietary fat for the past 3 generations combined with refined seed/bean oils Aye... This is probably the first medically/scientifically prescribed diet for society at large and it has been a disaster.
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  And the worst thing is, as we've learned from Big Tobacco, They're -never- going to admit it. Nestle, Kraft, etc. will stop at nothing to make sure they aren't liable for the way they cut costs at the expense of generations of human beings health.
  - dalbasal 6y ago
    They're definitely bad actors, but the whole thing is/was much bigger than just packaged food companies. National medical authorities. Your local doctor or nutritionist. The food pyramid hanging in your classroom. We're not good at mea culpas and the baggage hangs around.
lupire 6y ago
Oils are dietary fats though?
- User23 6y ago
  Refined seed oils are synthetic chemicals that just happen to use seeds as a feedstock in a relatively novel chemical reaction. Yes one can quibble that cooking is a chemical reaction, but it’s one that is both simple and that we’re long since evolved to tolerate. I stick to mechanically produced vegetable oils and animal fats. It’s not only healthier but it tastes better too. However, a healthy diet depends a great deal on your race. A traditional Inuit diet is observably healthy for Inuit persons, but probably best avoided by people like me. However there are no humans that are evolved to eat seed oils.
  - yknuri 6y ago
    Where does one find mechanically produced vegetable oils? I'm piqued, thanks in advance.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      Olive oil is the most obvious one
    - i_haz_rabies 6y ago
      Big mechanical squishers squishing olives.
    - jackyinger 6y ago
      Look for “expeller pressed” on seed oils (canola, etc). Now I see why they’re advertising the method of extraction...
  - macNchz 6y ago
    > However there are no humans that are evolved to eat seed oils. I am cautious about these sorts of issues and typically buy the least processed oils (and foods in general) that I can find, however it is my understanding that humans around the world have been producing and eating (mechanically expressed) sesame seed oil for thousands of years. I can't say whether that has any impact on whether people are "evolved to eat it", but it's certainly not something new: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02859136 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02859136
jonplackett 6y ago
It’s crazy isn’t it. So many foods they market as ‘low fat’ they just took out the good fat and replaced it with sugar- which your body immediately turns into fat anyway, and messes up your hormones and insulin sensitivity along the way. And the only oil we’ve introduced into the diet is trans fat which the body mistakes for good fat and just starts building stuff with it, and then it all breaks down and you get heart disease. You couldn’t make it up

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Almost 95 percent of the soybeans grown in the U.S. are genetically modified. https://www.thedailymeal.com/travel/8-most-genetically-modified-crops-slideshow https://www.thedailymeal.com/travel/8-most-genetically-modif... In 2007, over half the world’s soybean crop was genetically modified; a higher percentage than any other crop. https://worldofgenetics.weebly.com/genetically-modified-soybeans.html https://worldofgenetics.weebly.com/genetically-modified-soyb... Asians are probably eating less GMO soy (than Americans) and we don't really know what those genetic modifications do in terms of human health. They are typically made to improve profit in some fashion, not to improve human health.

mfer 6y ago
GMO soy is treated with different pesticides than non-GMO. What we eat still has some of the pesticide in it. It’s worth a considering the impact of the pesticide, too
eyko 6y ago
> They are typically made to improve profit in some fashion, not to improve human health. The main goals of GMOs are to increase yield and protect against disease / pests, which is practically the same goal we've had for thousands of years of crop domestication. Take for instance wild pre-domesticated maize vs present day non-GMO maize[1] and you'll see what "natural" crop selection does. Not only do we select for strains that are healthier and with more defenses, we also select strains that give us more bang for buck. Over the years, we've also selected for: texture, size, adaptability to different climates and soil compositions, lower concentration of toxic compounds, etc. Cassava and potatoes, for instance, can be deadly in their "natural" variety, and needed some "help" to get to the varieties we eat today. GMOs are simply the result of applying modern science in combination with what we've learnt from different cultures over thousands of years, to speed this process and hopefully prevent famine and starvation. I'm not saying all GMOs are good for you, but I just wanted to counter this idea that we don't know what effects GMOs have on us -- we've been eating GMOs for millenia. Edit: I should also strain that I fully support questioning GMOs and holding them to a high standard as a society, especially when the modifications are made for reasons which are to a high degree simply for profit. One example of that would be crops that are engineered to be infertile / yield no seeds. PS: I'm more concerned about chemical pesticides, especially in the scale at which they're used. Microplastics, heavy metals, soil depletion, etc. Many modern agricultural practices are not good for the environment, objectively speaking. But I wouldn't just blindly lump GMO in the same group just because it's also modern. 1. https://www.newswise.com/articles/tiny-genetic-tweak-unlocked-corn-kernels-during-domestication https://www.newswise.com/articles/tiny-genetic-tweak-unlocke...

tubularhells 6y ago

You mean the soyboys have been out evolved and outbred by the tofu eating Chadhuris?

fpoling 6y ago

One does not need 1000 years to evolve. One generation where soy intolerance leads to death through famine/malnutrition is enough. That is why cultural differences are so important to take into account.

maxerickson 6y ago
That first sentence is an awful way to kick off a comment about population genetics.
- hnuser123456 6y ago
  The point is if we make a population-wide change within a generation, we will see natural selection within the next. Not sure what your point is.

lupire 6y ago

So when bullies bully people for eating tofu, they being especially stupid because tofu is the one form of soy that isn't "anti-masculine"?

petertodd 6y ago
There are many types of tofu, only some of which are fermented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Varieties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Varieties

jtdev 6y ago

They also ferment a great deal of the soy they consume.