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For my situation an EV is MORE practical--no gas stations. In four years, only done a small handful of trips longer than 300 miles (range of car). I'd bet the m

For my situation an EV is MORE practical--no gas stations. In four years, only done a small handful of trips longer than 300 miles (range of car). I'd bet the most common US car trip originates from a home where the car can charge and is under 30 miles. Most US consumers who switch to EV are likely to feel it was an overall experience upgrade. Any car is a symphony of parts with varying durability, and if anything an EV will have fewer parts. So I think for the traditional manufactures doing ICE & EV cars, we'll see the EVs last longer outside the battery. That's the nexus of the longevity worry and I'm interested in whether newer solid-state batteries for cars start to solve for overall lifespan?

mike_d 6y ago
No gas stations is a huge downside. If you run out of juice, you're waiting for a flatbed tow truck to take you to a charging station. With a hybrid you can call AAA or you can walk to a gas station and grab a gallon of dead dinosaurs. I don't understand the insistence on being "fully EV." Just toss a 5 gallon tank and a small gas engine and generator in in every electric vehicle until batteries have a chance to iterate a generation or two.
- skissane 6y ago
  > No gas stations is a huge downside. If you run out of juice, you're waiting for a flatbed tow truck to take you to a charging station. With a hybrid you can call AAA or you can walk to a gas station and grab a gallon of dead dinosaurs. Another possible solution is a mobile off-grid charging station. A van or truck or trailer full of batteries and charging equipment. If you run out of charge, it comes to you, you plug your EV into it, it charges your batteries enough to make it to the nearest on-grid charging station. Quite possibly a better option than a tow truck. https://lightningemotors.com/lightning-mobile/ https://lightningemotors.com/lightning-mobile/ (You could even have a truck with a generator set and charger for mobile emergency charging. Not so environmentally friendly, but it would work.)
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    AAA piloted such a service, but there wasn't enough demand when you can tow an EV to a charger without the cost of rolling batteries on wheels to the EV [1]. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15346575/placebo-on-wheels-aaa-charging-trucks-seek-to-remedy-ev-range-anxiety-prove-mostly-unneeded/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15346575/placebo-on-wheel... ("Placebo on Wheels: AAA Charging Trucks Seek to Remedy EV Range Anxiety, Prove Mostly Unneeded")
    - skissane 6y ago
      If they tried again in the future, when EV adoption is greater, they might have more success. It is hard to say whether the failure of the idea is because it is never going to work, or because the market wasn't ready for it yet.
  - harikb 6y ago
    > Quite possibly a better option than a tow truck If they can get it down to 10 minutes, then yes, the wait time is better than load, attach, tow, detach sequence
    - xboxnolifes 6y ago
      It only needs to be enough to get you to a dedicated charge station. We are already at 10 minutes for the use case afaik.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  We have driven our Teslas tens of thousands of miles and have never once been in fear of running out of juice. I can even charge at any 120V outlet in a pinch with the mobile connector [1]. In the very unlikely event of running the car down to 0% SOC, AAA will tow me to the nearest Supercharger [2], J1772 charger [3], 220V outlet, or our high power wall charger at home. Range anxiety is overblown and well past its expiration date as a concern for EV uptake. Tesla is selling half a million vehicles a year, and yet, we hear very little of folks running out of power on the side of the road. Go figure. > I don't understand the insistence on being "fully EV." Just toss a 5 gallon tank and a small gas engine and generator in in every electric vehicle until batteries have a chance to iterate a generation or two. Automakers have sold hybrids for two decades. The evidence does not support enabling selling hybrids for another two decades instead of moving to EVs now. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mob... [2] https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map [3] https://plugshare.com/ https://plugshare.com/
  - Swizec 6y ago
    > Range anxiety is overblown and well past its expiration date as a concern for EV uptake. Tesla is selling half a million vehicles a year It might be overblown but since USA is a 3rd world country the lack of infrastructure for EVs becomes a real problem unless you’re a suburbanite with a garage. When we rented a Tesla it was a public holiday which meant all the big parking garages in SF that showed up on Tesla’s map were closed. We had to limp around the whole city while the car yelled at us that we’re about to permanently damage the battery. When we finally found a charger it was a $20 uber ride home. Overall “fantastic” experience.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      I’m sure you’re aware that San Francisco is not representative of most of the United States. Roughly 70% of all housing units in the US have a garage. Your edge case had a poor experience, but it isn’t the norm.
      - 6y ago
wil421 6y ago
Tesla is trying to say the computers parts in their cars are actually consumables that need to be replaced. They argued eMMCs were consumables and would require a $2000 fix. The regulators had to step in and fore their hand to do recalls. Car manufacturers will need to keep their service centers happy by putting in serviceable parts. Tesla’s the only large exception since they lack a dealer network but they will eventually play the same game.

mike_d 6y ago

No gas stations is a huge downside. If you run out of juice, you're waiting for a flatbed tow truck to take you to a charging station. With a hybrid you can call AAA or you can walk to a gas station and grab a gallon of dead dinosaurs. I don't understand the insistence on being "fully EV." Just toss a 5 gallon tank and a small gas engine and generator in in every electric vehicle until batteries have a chance to iterate a generation or two.

skissane 6y ago
> No gas stations is a huge downside. If you run out of juice, you're waiting for a flatbed tow truck to take you to a charging station. With a hybrid you can call AAA or you can walk to a gas station and grab a gallon of dead dinosaurs. Another possible solution is a mobile off-grid charging station. A van or truck or trailer full of batteries and charging equipment. If you run out of charge, it comes to you, you plug your EV into it, it charges your batteries enough to make it to the nearest on-grid charging station. Quite possibly a better option than a tow truck. https://lightningemotors.com/lightning-mobile/ https://lightningemotors.com/lightning-mobile/ (You could even have a truck with a generator set and charger for mobile emergency charging. Not so environmentally friendly, but it would work.)
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  AAA piloted such a service, but there wasn't enough demand when you can tow an EV to a charger without the cost of rolling batteries on wheels to the EV [1]. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15346575/placebo-on-wheels-aaa-charging-trucks-seek-to-remedy-ev-range-anxiety-prove-mostly-unneeded/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15346575/placebo-on-wheel... ("Placebo on Wheels: AAA Charging Trucks Seek to Remedy EV Range Anxiety, Prove Mostly Unneeded")
  - skissane 6y ago
    If they tried again in the future, when EV adoption is greater, they might have more success. It is hard to say whether the failure of the idea is because it is never going to work, or because the market wasn't ready for it yet.
- harikb 6y ago
  > Quite possibly a better option than a tow truck If they can get it down to 10 minutes, then yes, the wait time is better than load, attach, tow, detach sequence
  - xboxnolifes 6y ago
    It only needs to be enough to get you to a dedicated charge station. We are already at 10 minutes for the use case afaik.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
We have driven our Teslas tens of thousands of miles and have never once been in fear of running out of juice. I can even charge at any 120V outlet in a pinch with the mobile connector [1]. In the very unlikely event of running the car down to 0% SOC, AAA will tow me to the nearest Supercharger [2], J1772 charger [3], 220V outlet, or our high power wall charger at home. Range anxiety is overblown and well past its expiration date as a concern for EV uptake. Tesla is selling half a million vehicles a year, and yet, we hear very little of folks running out of power on the side of the road. Go figure. > I don't understand the insistence on being "fully EV." Just toss a 5 gallon tank and a small gas engine and generator in in every electric vehicle until batteries have a chance to iterate a generation or two. Automakers have sold hybrids for two decades. The evidence does not support enabling selling hybrids for another two decades instead of moving to EVs now. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mob... [2] https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map [3] https://plugshare.com/ https://plugshare.com/
- Swizec 6y ago
  > Range anxiety is overblown and well past its expiration date as a concern for EV uptake. Tesla is selling half a million vehicles a year It might be overblown but since USA is a 3rd world country the lack of infrastructure for EVs becomes a real problem unless you’re a suburbanite with a garage. When we rented a Tesla it was a public holiday which meant all the big parking garages in SF that showed up on Tesla’s map were closed. We had to limp around the whole city while the car yelled at us that we’re about to permanently damage the battery. When we finally found a charger it was a $20 uber ride home. Overall “fantastic” experience.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    I’m sure you’re aware that San Francisco is not representative of most of the United States. Roughly 70% of all housing units in the US have a garage. Your edge case had a poor experience, but it isn’t the norm.
    - 6y ago

wil421 6y ago

Tesla is trying to say the computers parts in their cars are actually consumables that need to be replaced. They argued eMMCs were consumables and would require a $2000 fix. The regulators had to step in and fore their hand to do recalls. Car manufacturers will need to keep their service centers happy by putting in serviceable parts. Tesla’s the only large exception since they lack a dealer network but they will eventually play the same game.