12 ms·
Scientists break through the wall of sleep to the untapped world of dreams
- SSGN 6y agoVery difficult not to click on this headline.
- Karuma 6y agoAgreed. This one was a better title: > Scientists communicate with people in lucid dreaming state
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- optimalsolver 6y agoI failed the test. Interesting article, though.
- sep_field 6y agoI always read the comments here before the article. Usually the comments tell me everything I need to know and are more interesting. Most of the time I never end up clicking on the actual article because I've gotten enough info from the comments.
- jnsie 6y agoSame. It happens often that the comments repudiate or at least undermine the article's claim. By the time I've read a few I've lost interest in said article.
- danaliv 6y agoYou should read the articles. You'll find that a lot of the "repudiations" are less convincing, or at least less interesting. (I didn't read this article.)
- tkahnoski 6y agoI make a point to never upvote without reading the article first. Only signal boost new information/insights not rehashes.
- anthony_romeo 6y agoI have tendencies to want to do this, but I choose to stop myself, to remember that random (hopefully) people on the Internet aren't necessarily more reliable than some random article on the Internet. It's valuable to check one's sources, but how many people actually check the source of some random upvoted commenter? How many people have the capacity to verify the veracity of convincing-sounding Hacker News comments?
- godelzilla 6y agoSolid bait. It would have helped to mention AI. 4/5 stars.
- WalterGR 6y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203685 - Scientists Achieve Real-Time Communication with Lucid Dreamers in Breakthrough (https://www.vice.com/en/article/4admym/scientists-achieve-real-time-communication-with-lucid-dreamers-in-breakthrough https://www.vice.com/en/article/4admym/scientists-achieve-re...) 121 points | elsewhen | 3 days ago | 60 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26185603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26185603 - Real-time dialogue between experimenters and dreamers during REM sleep (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(21)00059-2 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(21)...) 47 points | kasperni | 5 days ago | 21 comments
- sradman 6y agoTL;DR: during lucid REM sleep, patients with extra EEG probes around the eye socket can make detectable left to right eye movements that can be repeated to communicate numerical values (e.g. 2) in response to verbal questions like “eight minus six”.
- MasterScrat 6y agoNote that the fact that you can communicate during LDs through eye movements has been known and used for decades already.
- WalterGR 6y agoThe dreamer has indeed been able to signal to instrumentation via eye movements during lucid dreaming for some time. Do you have any links about two-way communication being used for decades?
- sriku 6y agoYeah .. and a dialog my wife pokes fun at - Me: (snoozing/dreaming) what's behind my head? Wife: A pillow. Me: Oh! I thought it was a spaceship.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sschueller 6y agoIs there an app or device that can reliably determine if you are in REM and signal you so you can become lucid? Does lucid dreaming affect the recovery you get from sleep?
- hh3k0 6y agoThere's a device with app which can reliably determine if you are in REM: https://dreem.com/ https://dreem.com/. I have sleep apnea and bought it in order to keep track of the quality of my sleep.
- notretarded 6y agoSaw them at CES 2020. Scary. Data broker for your brain activity. Avoid at all costs.
- FooBarWidget 6y agoWhat do you do with the data? After knowing the quality, how do you improve it?
- hh3k0 6y agoI can try to make lifestyle changes and see how it impacts my sleep, for example. Additionally, I can also quite reliably see when my CPAP needs adjusting by my doctor. The Dreem 2 has two functions I'm rather fond of: 1) It can wake you up in light sleep within a specific timeframe you've set. That made me less groggy and grumpy in the mornings. 2) It can generate pink noise which is said to enhance the quality of your deep sleep (there are a handful of studies about it). Both features work well for me but I think the pink noise function is not available in the US for some FDA-related terminology reason.
- sn41 6y agoI find pink noise relaxing when working.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
- hoseja 6y agoCan't wait to get targeted adverts in my dreams.
- smitty1e 6y agoCan't wait until we grasp that 'can'!='should' and figure out how to leave things up to nature.
- netizen-936824 6y agoAre humans not part of nature?
- wholinator2 6y agoSometimes it feels like corporate advertising/marketing very much are not. Honestly, most of corporate America feels like soulless money robots, very much anti-human.
- teddyh 6y agoPossibly your concept of “human” needs updating, since “corporate America” still consists of mostly humans.
- pferde 6y agoA cynicist's take would be that "corporate America", what with its laser-sharp focus on remorselessly exploiting everything and everyone for own profit, is actually very much human, as that is exactly what most humans have done since the very beginning.
- teddyh 6y ago“Cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.” — Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary (1881-1906)
- alexmingoia 6y agoDoes EEG activity identifying REM sleep only occur during sleep?
- _a1_ 6y agoPeople who train themselves to reliably induce lucid dreams call themselves oneironauts (Oneiros = Greek god of dreams). I was actively interested in this topic when I was younger and had much time to sleep and practice, but after I got my job and life problems kicked in, suddenly I realized that the only thing I require from a dream is to get a good night sleep so I will have strength to face problems during the day. A little bit sad but true. But, during my lucid dreaming endeavors I realized the technique itself is incredibly powerful. Especially for people who have tendencies for daydreaming. One easy technique used during learning is to create a habit of looking at the watch and asking oneself if this is a dream or not. Doing it for a few times during a day will eventually create a habit, and will eventually increase the chances of unintentionally doing it during the actual dream. Then, the question "is this a dream?" will have a chance of recalling that we have consciousness, while still being inside the dream. It will be a lucid dream. Maintaining lucid state of a lucid dream is another topic. Sometimes a few seconds after starting to be in a lucid dream, we forget about the state and we go right back to a normal, non-lucid dream. There are techniques for prolonging the state, but require training (like everything I guess).
- bujak300 6y agoApparently while lucid dreaming the brain doesn't renegerate the same like during normal sleep, so it's like less sleep / interrupted sleep.
- the_dripper 6y agoThis is interesting, as I am currently reading Sigmund Freud's Dream Analysis.
- foxhop 6y agoFollow that work to Carl Jung.
- Kelamir 6y agoAING folks have been doing lucid dreaming for years, their Russian forum at forum.aing.ru has 400k messages, so if you're interested in the topic, there's something you can learn from them. They have a number of attempts to make contacts with each other while lucid dreaming. You can check out the English version for their stuff here: https://obe4u.com https://obe4u.com
- throw1234651234 6y agoI have practiced lucid dreaming for literally years, and imho anyone who says they get super detailed dreams is full of **. Your mind doesn't have enough processing power to render realistic scenes. It's all a blurry mess and you wake up if you exert too much control.
- ckosidows 6y agoIsn't it possible other people experience their dreams in a different way than you do?
- throw1234651234 6y agoSure, it's possible, by in my experience, most people exaggerate everything - especially things that can't be verified. The other reason I have a hard time believing this is that I know normal people can't visualize anything. Artists, really good artists, are able to visualize a face with some detail. Most can't visualize a circle and toggle its color, let alone anything complex. To me, that is a strong argument to believe the mind can't generate clear worlds, as people claim.
- tyre 6y ago> Most can't visualize a circle and toggle its color, let alone anything complex. What? I’m doing this right now. I can do it with a white tiger. I can see Barrack Obama in a marching band on Mars. I have a friend who cannot picture anything in their mind, so it’s probably a spectrum. You might be projecting your experience onto others.
- slingnow 6y agoThe subject stated that while he was receiving these questions, he was "dreaming that he was asleep in the lab". Isn't is just as plausible that he wasn't lucid dreaming at all, and was instead in a half-asleep, half-awake stupor and responding to the questions from his awake consciousness? It would be much more convincing if the subject were in a different landscape.
- untoxicness 6y agoAs far as I know the "brain patterns" (as measured by EEG) during sleep are quite distinct. The article mentions somebody confirming that the subject was actually sleep.
- thestu 6y agoThey verified via brainwaves that he was in the REM stage of sleep. I don't really know anything about brainwaves, but this seems like the kind of thing that's fairly definitive.
- annoyingnoob 6y agoJust what an always on world needs, connected in your dreams. I won't even need to get out of bed the next time I get paged in the night. Can't wait to ssh in my dreams. Naw, I can wait forever on that one.
- Jeff_Brown 6y agoBut is lucid dreaming restorative? In my experience it's kind of fun but it doesn't really help me feel more rested.
- ReDeiPirati 6y agoFrom personal experience, after lucid dreaming (not semi-lucid) I feel like a vulcano. Seriously, I've never experience something as energising as lucid dreaming. I still remember the first time I had my first one: I felt like I was overloaded by electricity, one of the best sensation of my life. On the other hand, when the lucid dream transitions to semi-lucid and no-lucid, then I usually feel pretty tired.
- bordercases 6y agoFrom someone that has chronic lucid dreams, I heard they were not over time.
- vekker 6y agoThey can give an incredible energy boost and moodlift in my experience, but if feeling physically more rested is the goal, then I wouldn't spend the time & effort to try to induce lucid dreams.
- beermonster 6y agoThese days when I lucid dream it often wakes me up very soon after I realise I’m lucid dreaming. So, definitely less rested. When I was a kid I could just live in my dream for hours. Seem to have lost that ability.
- mindcrime 6y agoGreat, I'm so excited to be asleep and have some guy show up in my dreams saying "Hi, I've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty..."
- officialjunk 6y agotin foil hats will make a comeback
- birdman3131 6y agoTinfoil hats are just adding a large antenna to your head.
- rajangdavis 6y agoThat's just what Big Foil wants you to believe.
- Ccecil 6y agoGotta do shiny side out.
- MisterBastahrd 6y agoFitted colanders are the new fedora.
- airhead969 6y agoProper attire on Chapek 9. http://theinfosphere.org/images/2/23/Chapek_9_Propaganda_1.png http://theinfosphere.org/images/2/23/Chapek_9_Propaganda_1.p...
- watertom 6y agoYou need your body encased in a Faraday cage otherwise the tin, or more likely aluminum, hat won't be blocking anything. In fact as some suggest it could act to focused the brain controls waves straight to the brain
- breakattn 6y agoStephen LaBerge made this same discovery in 1987 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_LaBerge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_LaBerge They did not do their research.
- vekker 6y agoEverything old is new again... It goes back to the late 70s with Stephen LaBerge's and Keith Hearne's research, but as far as I know, those experiments were always involving one-way communication. A few years ago, the author of the awesome blog lucidcode, trained himself to communicate in Morse code with the outside world: https://lsdbase.org/2012/05/11/hello-dream-world/ https://lsdbase.org/2012/05/11/hello-dream-world/ I also recall someone doing a full-on two-way communication experiment involving eye signals and light flashes a couple years ago, but I don't remember the source.
- twic 6y agoThe title references H. P. Lovecraft's story 'Beyond the Wall of Sleep': https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/bws.aspx https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/bws.aspx A lot of scientific research has been inspired by science fiction, but i tend to think that the worlds of H. P. Lovecraft, Philip K. Dick, etc might best be avoided rather than sought out.
- africanboy 6y agoBlack Sabbath were huge fans of H.P. Lovecraft https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYgBOVoLI6U https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYgBOVoLI6U
- twic 6y agoI didn't know that! Ningen Isu, who have been described as the Japanese Black Sabbath, have also done a few Lovecraft songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JY89ZxVqEg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JY89ZxVqEg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHk3k49kec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHk3k49kec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eF77ePmHA4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eF77ePmHA4
- africanboy 6y agoI didn't know them! I absolutely love it! thanks
- ashin 6y agoOnce again, xkcd did it first. https://xkcd.com/269/ https://xkcd.com/269/
- untoxicness 6y agoI was quite surprised to hear Jim Keller talking about lucid dreaming on a recent episode of the Lex Fridman podcast. [0] If I recall correctly, Keller uses dreaming as a productivity tool. [0] https://lexfridman.com/jim-keller-2/ https://lexfridman.com/jim-keller-2/ (1:46)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]