3 ms·

I think it would be more prudent to look at the context in Muhammad's times. Muhammad often preached of Jews and Christians as also being brethren, as fellow "P

I think it would be more prudent to look at the context in Muhammad's times. Muhammad often preached of Jews and Christians as also being brethren, as fellow "People of the Book". But it is also to be noted that Muhammad, during his travels to Damascus, was only exposed to the Orthodox flavor of Christianity in the ERE - which itself was just going through a phase of staunch iconoclasm. The later adoption and proliferation of icons in the ERE seems to be a response to Muslim rulers issuing coins with their names and phrases of the Quran. But it would be expected that in Muhammad's time, he would have seen a lot of similarity between (Byzantine) Christians and Muslims. If he had been on a trip to the WRE, he might have likely had a very different take on Christianity, albeit one in more staunch opposition.

ComputerGuru 6y ago
Interesting take. Note that the Council of Chalcedon took place in 451 AD, or around a hundred and twenty years before Muhammad was born so the divergent views between the orthodox everyone else would have definitely been canonical by then, lending credence to that possibility. But note that Islam’s view on the nature of Jesus (a prophet but not a god) is probably easier to reconcile with the Chalcedonian view that separates between his purported divine and mortal existences to a greater extent than orthodox miaphysitism (which tends to blur the lines somewhat) does, at least as I understand it.
- fakedang 6y ago
  I would actually speculate that apart from the above iconoclastic view of Jesus from the orthodox belief, perhaps Judaism had a greater influence on Islam, and Islam's general view on the non-godliness of man. Islam and Judaism share almost similar prayer times, similar prayer styles, extremely parallel belief systems, etc due to the proximity of Jews in Arabia (Medina [Yathrib] was a largely Jewish city pre-Islam). But while Judaism chose to reject Jesus as even a prophet outright, Islam sought to reconcile the view by keeping him a prophet, perhaps because the Roman Empire under Heraclius was still very dominant. It is important to note that Islam was created as a very administrative religion rather than a philosophical one, partly because Muhammad wanted to see it being adopted in 3 key regions. He sent emissaries to Heraclius the Elder (at Constantinople), who briefly considered the proposal, to the Patriarch of the Copts (at Alexandria), who amicably received it, preserved it (till today) and sent back his own friendly missive of rejection [1], and to Khusrau of the Sassanid Empire, who tore up the letter. So I doubt that Muhammad actually gave much effort to philosophical aspects such as Jesus or Ahura Mazda, and simply chose to borrow the history from nearby religions while reconciling them with the core that is Islamic monotheism. In fact, Muslims actually have four books they consider holy - the Torah, the Zabur (Psalms), the Injeel (Gospel of Christ) and the Quran (Revelations to Muhammad). [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muqawqis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muqawqis
  - usrusr 6y ago
    I wonder how strong the "family only, no entry by conversion" element of Judaism was at the time/place. If we consider Muhammad a person acting on human motivation (instead of divine instruction, a somewhat divisive approach considering how insistence on the latter appears to be the strongest theological moat of Islam), it could well be that Christianity was only referenced as a gateway, as a precedence for a form of Judaism that welcomed people not born Jewish, but that the goal wasn't at all Christianity (from far away), but an opened up version of the local Judaism.
    - fakedang 6y ago
      > it could well be that Christianity was only referenced as a gateway, as a precedence for a form of Judaism that welcomed people not born Jewish, but that the goal wasn't at all Christianity (from far away), but an opened up version of the local Judaism. Apart from the human motivation element, you're getting there as to what the Islamic view is. The Quran does talk of Jews as the chosen people of God whom he will gather back in Israel, but also mentions that their misfortune (at being thinly spread out and not collected in their homeland) is because of divine punishment for their waywardliness (which the Quran does not cease to stress upon a lot). Islam is considered to be Judaism v2 and out of closed beta, within the Quranic text itself. Obviously some of the strongly worded verses calling Jews misguided heretics is misinterpreted and largely the "divine proof" for a lot of animosity from the Muslim community towards Jews in general. The influence of Jews on Islam cannot be underestimated. Some Jewish kings, apart from the usual prophets in Islam, such as Shamir Yuharish of Himyar (modern Yemen) are still fairly popular in the Arabian peninsula among Arabic Muslims. In fact, we had to learn about them as expat students in an Arabic country as part of the regional history lessons.

ComputerGuru 6y ago

Interesting take. Note that the Council of Chalcedon took place in 451 AD, or around a hundred and twenty years before Muhammad was born so the divergent views between the orthodox everyone else would have definitely been canonical by then, lending credence to that possibility. But note that Islam’s view on the nature of Jesus (a prophet but not a god) is probably easier to reconcile with the Chalcedonian view that separates between his purported divine and mortal existences to a greater extent than orthodox miaphysitism (which tends to blur the lines somewhat) does, at least as I understand it.

fakedang 6y ago
I would actually speculate that apart from the above iconoclastic view of Jesus from the orthodox belief, perhaps Judaism had a greater influence on Islam, and Islam's general view on the non-godliness of man. Islam and Judaism share almost similar prayer times, similar prayer styles, extremely parallel belief systems, etc due to the proximity of Jews in Arabia (Medina [Yathrib] was a largely Jewish city pre-Islam). But while Judaism chose to reject Jesus as even a prophet outright, Islam sought to reconcile the view by keeping him a prophet, perhaps because the Roman Empire under Heraclius was still very dominant. It is important to note that Islam was created as a very administrative religion rather than a philosophical one, partly because Muhammad wanted to see it being adopted in 3 key regions. He sent emissaries to Heraclius the Elder (at Constantinople), who briefly considered the proposal, to the Patriarch of the Copts (at Alexandria), who amicably received it, preserved it (till today) and sent back his own friendly missive of rejection [1], and to Khusrau of the Sassanid Empire, who tore up the letter. So I doubt that Muhammad actually gave much effort to philosophical aspects such as Jesus or Ahura Mazda, and simply chose to borrow the history from nearby religions while reconciling them with the core that is Islamic monotheism. In fact, Muslims actually have four books they consider holy - the Torah, the Zabur (Psalms), the Injeel (Gospel of Christ) and the Quran (Revelations to Muhammad). [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muqawqis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muqawqis
- usrusr 6y ago
  I wonder how strong the "family only, no entry by conversion" element of Judaism was at the time/place. If we consider Muhammad a person acting on human motivation (instead of divine instruction, a somewhat divisive approach considering how insistence on the latter appears to be the strongest theological moat of Islam), it could well be that Christianity was only referenced as a gateway, as a precedence for a form of Judaism that welcomed people not born Jewish, but that the goal wasn't at all Christianity (from far away), but an opened up version of the local Judaism.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    > it could well be that Christianity was only referenced as a gateway, as a precedence for a form of Judaism that welcomed people not born Jewish, but that the goal wasn't at all Christianity (from far away), but an opened up version of the local Judaism. Apart from the human motivation element, you're getting there as to what the Islamic view is. The Quran does talk of Jews as the chosen people of God whom he will gather back in Israel, but also mentions that their misfortune (at being thinly spread out and not collected in their homeland) is because of divine punishment for their waywardliness (which the Quran does not cease to stress upon a lot). Islam is considered to be Judaism v2 and out of closed beta, within the Quranic text itself. Obviously some of the strongly worded verses calling Jews misguided heretics is misinterpreted and largely the "divine proof" for a lot of animosity from the Muslim community towards Jews in general. The influence of Jews on Islam cannot be underestimated. Some Jewish kings, apart from the usual prophets in Islam, such as Shamir Yuharish of Himyar (modern Yemen) are still fairly popular in the Arabian peninsula among Arabic Muslims. In fact, we had to learn about them as expat students in an Arabic country as part of the regional history lessons.