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There is no hack. Low-speed vehicles are legal in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle I’ve

by OldHand2018 6y ago

There is no hack. Low-speed vehicles are legal in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle I’ve seen maybe 2 or 3 in my life outside of Florida.

repsilat 6y ago
In TFA they made a big point of you not needing any kind of license to drive one in China. I guess that's true of ebikes in the US, but above that point I think is a regulatory line that will never be relaxed. If it has indicators you'll need a license in the US forever, IMO, even if limited to city speeds. I suspect higher interest rates might change the calculus too. If you can get a low-interest, long-duration loan like people get these days in the US you're more likely to go big. And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. Compare the median wage between the US and China.
- esperent 6y ago
  > And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger. Driving a big car in most Asian cities would be a horrible experience, so I expect smaller cars to be more popular.
  - filoleg 6y ago
    > What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger While I agree with you overall, I have a small thing that, I feel, you forgot about. While the median wages in European countries are the same, are they taxed at the same rate as their US counterparts? What about cars themselves, do they cost higher (MSRP+sales tax+fees+etc.)? And what about the cost of ownership (higher gasoline taxes+annual registration fees+etc.)? Mind you, I don't own the actual information about most of those, those questions I posed weren't rhetorical. However, I have a gut feeling that median wage Europeans are taxed higher on their income than their US counterparts, and I know for a fact that some things when it comes to car ownership in Europe (like gasoline) are indeed noticeably more expensive. P.S. I am not trying to start a flamewar about which approach to taxation and pricing of goods is preferable, I understand that Europeans might be getting more worth out of their taxes, even if they are being taxed more overall. There are pros/cons to both, but that's not what this conversation is about, so please don't take my comment as trying to take a stand on that debate.
    - midasuni 6y ago
      US tax on $50k median wage is about 20%, take home about $40k U.K. tax on $43k median is about 20%, take home pay $43k, but no health care costs Average car cost in US 60c/Mile https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operating-automobile https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operatin... In the U.K. is 41p/Mile or 58c https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-cost-run-car-uk https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-cost-run-car-uk
      - filoleg 6y ago
        Fair, but you didn't address the part about the cars themselves costing more + the fact that the gasoline is still significantly more expensive per gallon (UK people just seem to drive much less miles per year than those in the US). In that second link you posted, it lists the starting price of base VW Golf as £38k (around $53k), while in the US the same model costs about $23k. Even if you tack on all the taxes and registration fees and such, you won't get even close to that $53k. After all the taxes and fees, even a midrange Tesla Model 3 (not the base model) costs less than that $53k in the US.
        leoedin 6y ago
        I think that statistic is a mistake, or skewed by high spec versions. The starting price of a VW golf in the UK is about £22k - no where near that £38k. Cars are more expensive, but not _that_ much more expensive. https://www.carwow.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/specifications#nav https://www.carwow.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/specifications#nav
        filoleg 6y ago
        Thanks for pointing it out. I assumed those stats would be correct, but after being prompted to look into it by your reply, they were not. It even says in those stats "starting OTR cost of popular models", so not a beefed up maxed out version. But nope, I checked the official VW website for UK, and the prices are along the lines of what you were saying, £22k-24k. Now I don't know if I can even trust the rest of the stats on that page.

repsilat 6y ago

In TFA they made a big point of you not needing any kind of license to drive one in China. I guess that's true of ebikes in the US, but above that point I think is a regulatory line that will never be relaxed. If it has indicators you'll need a license in the US forever, IMO, even if limited to city speeds. I suspect higher interest rates might change the calculus too. If you can get a low-interest, long-duration loan like people get these days in the US you're more likely to go big. And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. Compare the median wage between the US and China.

esperent 6y ago
> And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger. Driving a big car in most Asian cities would be a horrible experience, so I expect smaller cars to be more popular.
- filoleg 6y ago
  > What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger While I agree with you overall, I have a small thing that, I feel, you forgot about. While the median wages in European countries are the same, are they taxed at the same rate as their US counterparts? What about cars themselves, do they cost higher (MSRP+sales tax+fees+etc.)? And what about the cost of ownership (higher gasoline taxes+annual registration fees+etc.)? Mind you, I don't own the actual information about most of those, those questions I posed weren't rhetorical. However, I have a gut feeling that median wage Europeans are taxed higher on their income than their US counterparts, and I know for a fact that some things when it comes to car ownership in Europe (like gasoline) are indeed noticeably more expensive. P.S. I am not trying to start a flamewar about which approach to taxation and pricing of goods is preferable, I understand that Europeans might be getting more worth out of their taxes, even if they are being taxed more overall. There are pros/cons to both, but that's not what this conversation is about, so please don't take my comment as trying to take a stand on that debate.
  - midasuni 6y ago
    US tax on $50k median wage is about 20%, take home about $40k U.K. tax on $43k median is about 20%, take home pay $43k, but no health care costs Average car cost in US 60c/Mile https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operating-automobile https://www.bts.gov/content/average-cost-owning-and-operatin... In the U.K. is 41p/Mile or 58c https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-cost-run-car-uk https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-cost-run-car-uk
    - filoleg 6y ago
      Fair, but you didn't address the part about the cars themselves costing more + the fact that the gasoline is still significantly more expensive per gallon (UK people just seem to drive much less miles per year than those in the US). In that second link you posted, it lists the starting price of base VW Golf as £38k (around $53k), while in the US the same model costs about $23k. Even if you tack on all the taxes and registration fees and such, you won't get even close to that $53k. After all the taxes and fees, even a midrange Tesla Model 3 (not the base model) costs less than that $53k in the US.
      - leoedin 6y ago
        I think that statistic is a mistake, or skewed by high spec versions. The starting price of a VW golf in the UK is about £22k - no where near that £38k. Cars are more expensive, but not _that_ much more expensive. https://www.carwow.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/specifications#nav https://www.carwow.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/specifications#nav
        filoleg 6y ago
        Thanks for pointing it out. I assumed those stats would be correct, but after being prompted to look into it by your reply, they were not. It even says in those stats "starting OTR cost of popular models", so not a beefed up maxed out version. But nope, I checked the official VW website for UK, and the prices are along the lines of what you were saying, £22k-24k. Now I don't know if I can even trust the rest of the stats on that page.