7 ms·

What's the hack to get something like this in the US? I don't want to drive my kids around in it, but I have a short drive on 35 mph roads to my co-working spac

by xrd 6y ago

What's the hack to get something like this in the US? I don't want to drive my kids around in it, but I have a short drive on 35 mph roads to my co-working space and I would love to go electric.

brij0102 6y ago
Electric assist bikes could serve you well if the distance works out
- xrd 6y ago
  I've got a cargo electric bike. My route has a few 35 mph roads that wind through rolling hills and no bike lanes. I've tried biking it, but the cars are aggressive. I really want a car for this commute.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    CSC's city slicker might do the trick. Or it might not. Needs you to have a motorcycle licence, though.
  - dazc 6y ago
    I have a similar issue although only a two-mile each way journey, perfect for an e-bike or scooter but other drivers are the problem.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    There are definite cultural problems to blame for this. A significant number of drivers get angry or offended at any non-car vehicle on "their" roads, because they see them as a threat or an impediment them. There are probably many reasons for this that are not directly related to cars or traffic, but rather to general worldviews, politics, prejudices, aspiration and many others, including seeing bicycles in particular as toys and for recreation by Tour de France-inspired cyclists. However, I think one of the biggest factors is the insistence on "vehicular cycling"[1], which is the foundation for forcing bicycles to follow traffic laws in place for motorized traffic, instead of having bicycle-specific laws that take into account the properties and limitations of human-powered transport.[2][3] Forcing cyclists to "take the lane" and perform left turns as if they were cars (and having to cross multiple lanes of traffic) is ridiculous, because of the speed and weight disparity. It's extremely dangerous to the cyclists and aggravating to motorists, because of the huge speed differentials and because a collision will almost always result in severe injuries for the cyclist. Even the most basic changes, such as making hook turns[4] the mandated method for left-turning cyclists, would make a gigantic improvement in safety and traffic flow. After that comes the bike lanes and paths, plus tweaks to intersections to avoid right turn accidents and reduce the number of times different types of traffic have to cross paths. The cultural issues of entitlement and refusal to share common infrastructure are a separate issue, but I believe at least some of that tension could be reduced with a few sensible tweaks to traffic laws and road planning. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling [2] http://shifter.info/vehicular-cycling-is-dead-just-dont-bury-the-body-yet/ http://shifter.info/vehicular-cycling-is-dead-just-dont-bury... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75jnRW23X8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75jnRW23X8 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn
    - rank0 6y ago
      People don't like bicyclists because they are observably more dangerous. I think cyclists should have their own paths where possible. But honestly, I think the cyclists are the ones being selfish by disrupting traffic, endangering themselves and others so they can feel "green" or workout or whatever.
      - mattbk1 6y ago
        They aren't disrupting traffic, they are traffic.
        rank0 6y ago
        Sure. Just like how a reckless driver is traffic too. Doesn't mean cyclists or the reckless drivers are automatically justified.
        mattbk1 6y ago
        I'm not even sure how to respond to this type of lumping. > Good drivers and reckless drivers are both traffic. Doesn't mean they are both automatically justified.
        rank0 6y ago
        Your original point seems to be: "bicyclists are not disrupting traffic because they are part of traffic" My counter point is that "being part of traffic does not preclude you from disrupting traffic. See reckless driver example." Did I misunderstand your original comment?
        mattbk1 6y ago
        It seems like you got it. I'm trying to parse how you choose to blame people on bicycles for disrupting traffic but not people in cars.
      - 6y ago
OldHand2018 6y ago
There is no hack. Low-speed vehicles are legal in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle I’ve seen maybe 2 or 3 in my life outside of Florida.
- repsilat 6y ago
  In TFA they made a big point of you not needing any kind of license to drive one in China. I guess that's true of ebikes in the US, but above that point I think is a regulatory line that will never be relaxed. If it has indicators you'll need a license in the US forever, IMO, even if limited to city speeds. I suspect higher interest rates might change the calculus too. If you can get a low-interest, long-duration loan like people get these days in the US you're more likely to go big. And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. Compare the median wage between the US and China.
  - esperent 6y ago
    > And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger. Driving a big car in most Asian cities would be a horrible experience, so I expect smaller cars to be more popular.
    - filoleg 6y ago
      > What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger While I agree with you overall, I have a small thing that, I feel, you forgot about. While the median wages in European countries are the same, are they taxed at the same rate as their US counterparts? What about cars themselves, do they cost higher (MSRP+sales tax+fees+etc.)? And what about the cost of ownership (higher gasoline taxes+annual registration fees+etc.)? Mind you, I don't own the actual information about most of those, those questions I posed weren't rhetorical. However, I have a gut feeling that median wage Europeans are taxed higher on their income than their US counterparts, and I know for a fact that some things when it comes to car ownership in Europe (like gasoline) are indeed noticeably more expensive. P.S. I am not trying to start a flamewar about which approach to taxation and pricing of goods is preferable, I understand that Europeans might be getting more worth out of their taxes, even if they are being taxed more overall. There are pros/cons to both, but that's not what this conversation is about, so please don't take my comment as trying to take a stand on that debate.
inasio 6y ago
A guy in jalopnik.com imported one of these mini electric cars from China and detailed the whole process, he was very happy with how it turned out [0]. [0 - one of many articles on the car] https://jalopnik.com/unboxing-the-worlds-cheapest-new-car-reveals-its-so-muc-1843756389 https://jalopnik.com/unboxing-the-worlds-cheapest-new-car-re...
- pentae 6y ago
  Makes you wonder if it's possible, and theres demand for it, why some Silicon Valley entrepreneur hasn't tried building a business for it? Especially with capital for EV being so hot right now
- josefresco 6y ago
  This was a great read last summer. I'm eager to see a follow up, so thanks for reminding me! Found some follow up articles: First Drive: https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-the-worlds-cheapest-electric-car-is-like-to-1843904305 https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-the-worlds-cheapest-electric... 3 Months: https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-the-cheapest-electric-car-in-the-world-holds-1844778975 https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-the-cheapest-electric-car-in-... New Version: https://jalopnik.com/holy-crap-the-new-2021-changlis-have-been-significantly-1846035935 https://jalopnik.com/holy-crap-the-new-2021-changlis-have-be...
a9h74j 6y ago
FWIW, video titled US Electric Bike Laws Explained[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v71dkOM4NuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v71dkOM4NuE
xrd 6y ago
Gem has street legal cars that go up to 25 mph "GEM Vehicles are classified as Low Speed Vehicles (LSVs). LSVs are street-legal, four-wheeled electric vehicles with a top speed of 25 mph. Learn more about LSVs here." I wonder if you could "overclock" them and get them to go 35? No one would even notice...
- timerol 6y ago
  Given the excessive hand-wringing around e-bikes that can go over 28 mph in NYC, someone would definitely notice

by xrd 6y ago

What's the hack to get something like this in the US? I don't want to drive my kids around in it, but I have a short drive on 35 mph roads to my co-working space and I would love to go electric.

brij0102 6y ago

Electric assist bikes could serve you well if the distance works out

xrd 6y ago
I've got a cargo electric bike. My route has a few 35 mph roads that wind through rolling hills and no bike lanes. I've tried biking it, but the cars are aggressive. I really want a car for this commute.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  CSC's city slicker might do the trick. Or it might not. Needs you to have a motorcycle licence, though.
- dazc 6y ago
  I have a similar issue although only a two-mile each way journey, perfect for an e-bike or scooter but other drivers are the problem.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  There are definite cultural problems to blame for this. A significant number of drivers get angry or offended at any non-car vehicle on "their" roads, because they see them as a threat or an impediment them. There are probably many reasons for this that are not directly related to cars or traffic, but rather to general worldviews, politics, prejudices, aspiration and many others, including seeing bicycles in particular as toys and for recreation by Tour de France-inspired cyclists. However, I think one of the biggest factors is the insistence on "vehicular cycling"[1], which is the foundation for forcing bicycles to follow traffic laws in place for motorized traffic, instead of having bicycle-specific laws that take into account the properties and limitations of human-powered transport.[2][3] Forcing cyclists to "take the lane" and perform left turns as if they were cars (and having to cross multiple lanes of traffic) is ridiculous, because of the speed and weight disparity. It's extremely dangerous to the cyclists and aggravating to motorists, because of the huge speed differentials and because a collision will almost always result in severe injuries for the cyclist. Even the most basic changes, such as making hook turns[4] the mandated method for left-turning cyclists, would make a gigantic improvement in safety and traffic flow. After that comes the bike lanes and paths, plus tweaks to intersections to avoid right turn accidents and reduce the number of times different types of traffic have to cross paths. The cultural issues of entitlement and refusal to share common infrastructure are a separate issue, but I believe at least some of that tension could be reduced with a few sensible tweaks to traffic laws and road planning. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling [2] http://shifter.info/vehicular-cycling-is-dead-just-dont-bury-the-body-yet/ http://shifter.info/vehicular-cycling-is-dead-just-dont-bury... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75jnRW23X8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75jnRW23X8 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn
  - rank0 6y ago
    People don't like bicyclists because they are observably more dangerous. I think cyclists should have their own paths where possible. But honestly, I think the cyclists are the ones being selfish by disrupting traffic, endangering themselves and others so they can feel "green" or workout or whatever.
    - mattbk1 6y ago
      They aren't disrupting traffic, they are traffic.
      - rank0 6y ago
        Sure. Just like how a reckless driver is traffic too. Doesn't mean cyclists or the reckless drivers are automatically justified.
        mattbk1 6y ago
        I'm not even sure how to respond to this type of lumping. > Good drivers and reckless drivers are both traffic. Doesn't mean they are both automatically justified.
        rank0 6y ago
        Your original point seems to be: "bicyclists are not disrupting traffic because they are part of traffic" My counter point is that "being part of traffic does not preclude you from disrupting traffic. See reckless driver example." Did I misunderstand your original comment?
        mattbk1 6y ago
        It seems like you got it. I'm trying to parse how you choose to blame people on bicycles for disrupting traffic but not people in cars.
    - 6y ago

OldHand2018 6y ago

There is no hack. Low-speed vehicles are legal in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle I’ve seen maybe 2 or 3 in my life outside of Florida.

repsilat 6y ago
In TFA they made a big point of you not needing any kind of license to drive one in China. I guess that's true of ebikes in the US, but above that point I think is a regulatory line that will never be relaxed. If it has indicators you'll need a license in the US forever, IMO, even if limited to city speeds. I suspect higher interest rates might change the calculus too. If you can get a low-interest, long-duration loan like people get these days in the US you're more likely to go big. And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. Compare the median wage between the US and China.
- esperent 6y ago
  > And, to be fair, a major part of why the US has bigger cars is that people can afford them. What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger. Driving a big car in most Asian cities would be a horrible experience, so I expect smaller cars to be more popular.
  - filoleg 6y ago
    > What about European countries with similar median wage to the US but where most people choose small cars? I think big cars in the US is partly a cultural thing, and also partly because roads in the US are bigger While I agree with you overall, I have a small thing that, I feel, you forgot about. While the median wages in European countries are the same, are they taxed at the same rate as their US counterparts? What about cars themselves, do they cost higher (MSRP+sales tax+fees+etc.)? And what about the cost of ownership (higher gasoline taxes+annual registration fees+etc.)? Mind you, I don't own the actual information about most of those, those questions I posed weren't rhetorical. However, I have a gut feeling that median wage Europeans are taxed higher on their income than their US counterparts, and I know for a fact that some things when it comes to car ownership in Europe (like gasoline) are indeed noticeably more expensive. P.S. I am not trying to start a flamewar about which approach to taxation and pricing of goods is preferable, I understand that Europeans might be getting more worth out of their taxes, even if they are being taxed more overall. There are pros/cons to both, but that's not what this conversation is about, so please don't take my comment as trying to take a stand on that debate.

inasio 6y ago

A guy in jalopnik.com imported one of these mini electric cars from China and detailed the whole process, he was very happy with how it turned out [0]. [0 - one of many articles on the car] https://jalopnik.com/unboxing-the-worlds-cheapest-new-car-reveals-its-so-muc-1843756389 https://jalopnik.com/unboxing-the-worlds-cheapest-new-car-re...

pentae 6y ago
Makes you wonder if it's possible, and theres demand for it, why some Silicon Valley entrepreneur hasn't tried building a business for it? Especially with capital for EV being so hot right now
josefresco 6y ago
This was a great read last summer. I'm eager to see a follow up, so thanks for reminding me! Found some follow up articles: First Drive: https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-the-worlds-cheapest-electric-car-is-like-to-1843904305 https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-the-worlds-cheapest-electric... 3 Months: https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-the-cheapest-electric-car-in-the-world-holds-1844778975 https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-the-cheapest-electric-car-in-... New Version: https://jalopnik.com/holy-crap-the-new-2021-changlis-have-been-significantly-1846035935 https://jalopnik.com/holy-crap-the-new-2021-changlis-have-be...

a9h74j 6y ago

FWIW, video titled US Electric Bike Laws Explained[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v71dkOM4NuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v71dkOM4NuE

xrd 6y ago

Gem has street legal cars that go up to 25 mph "GEM Vehicles are classified as Low Speed Vehicles (LSVs). LSVs are street-legal, four-wheeled electric vehicles with a top speed of 25 mph. Learn more about LSVs here." I wonder if you could "overclock" them and get them to go 35? No one would even notice...

timerol 6y ago
Given the excessive hand-wringing around e-bikes that can go over 28 mph in NYC, someone would definitely notice