2 ms·

> It's gross that the decision not to fix this carries an apparent implicit economic calculation Spending money will remain economic decision until we can have

by rsj_hn 6y ago

> It's gross that the decision not to fix this carries an apparent implicit economic calculation Spending money will remain economic decision until we can have government agencies fueled by the righteous indignation of their critics rather than having a line item added to their budget. Until you can convert that indignation into legal tender, agencies will remain subject to old fashioned accounting constraints.

craig131 6y ago
The onerous budget item we are talking about here is a feature that multiply days sentenced by 0.7 if the inmate completes one checkbox item. You know, just to keep things in perspective.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  Right, so that's just * a UI change to check the box this information is on * UI change to view whether the box is already checked or not * a data model change to store the information * business logic change that modifies some critical code that calculates when someone should be released * security/access control change to decide who is allowed to check this box * auditing logic to keep logs of this stuff * possibly new UI/management code to add/remove members to this group of people who can check the box * together with adding some procedures for tracking who completes what, documentation, training and auditing. * Testing the whole thing. Probably for piles of who knows what where the original author is long gone and the test code is no longer functional. Just to keep things in perspective.
  - GovCoderThrow 6y ago
    Given that your post didn't mention the human rights being violated here once, I think it's you that needs to find the correct perspective.
  - wly_cdgr 6y ago
    Ok, but you must be charging by the hour if you think this is anywhere near 2000 hours of work
    - rsj_hn 6y ago
      1. Once you work for a big bureaucracy, you realize how slow this stuff is. In terms of how much actual work it takes, it depends very much on the condition of the test environment -- whether it has been maintained and how much effort is required to get back up and running. Plus, how much paperwork is involved in dealing with the government agency that contracts this out. I can easily see a situation in which you don't even accept jobs that are less than 2000 hours as it's not worth it. 2. What I described is not the actual fix, it is the temporary stopgap. The prison department isn't going to pay someone to click checkboxes all the time for tens of thousands of inmates each year. They will want this info to be set automatically -- e.g. an integration from whatever software system(s) are used to track completion of the coursework to this system, so you are not hiring another employee to sit and click all the time nor do you need to create reporting procedures to get that info into the hands of the person who is clicking. The appropriate design then requires automation, which will require security controls, and it's a pain. It could easily be more than a year of work, again depending on how many systems they need to integrate against, what types of sign off/controls are required, how much paperwork is required, etc. For example, maybe the coursework has no software tracking, in which case they need to throw up a portal and have the people running the course fill out who did what, and then throw up another portal to have someone else review that. Lots of stuff ends up being passed around by ftp or csv uploads. I've seen horror stories. So it really depends on how they plan to do this integration -- the manual button clicking was just an example of a least effort system that relied on a lot of manual labor, but perhaps this is not in their budget either.
      - wly_cdgr 6y ago
        I'm not saying it mightn't be 2000 hours of red tape, incompetence, and corruption. I could believe that easily enough. I'm saying it's not 2000 hours of actual work.
- DougN7 6y ago
  Multiply by 0.7? Doesn’t that mean the sentence is shortened?
  - bigwavedave 6y ago
    Yep! The problem here is that the software doesn't take into account extra release credits earned from a piece of legislation introduced in 2019. Currently, additional credits are earned and the software fails to apply them to the release date, so the parent is saying the fix is to multiply the number of time in the original sentence by .7 to get the new, reduced sentence.

by rsj_hn 6y ago

craig131 6y ago

The onerous budget item we are talking about here is a feature that multiply days sentenced by 0.7 if the inmate completes one checkbox item. You know, just to keep things in perspective.

rsj_hn 6y ago
Right, so that's just * a UI change to check the box this information is on * UI change to view whether the box is already checked or not * a data model change to store the information * business logic change that modifies some critical code that calculates when someone should be released * security/access control change to decide who is allowed to check this box * auditing logic to keep logs of this stuff * possibly new UI/management code to add/remove members to this group of people who can check the box * together with adding some procedures for tracking who completes what, documentation, training and auditing. * Testing the whole thing. Probably for piles of who knows what where the original author is long gone and the test code is no longer functional. Just to keep things in perspective.
- GovCoderThrow 6y ago
  Given that your post didn't mention the human rights being violated here once, I think it's you that needs to find the correct perspective.
- wly_cdgr 6y ago
  Ok, but you must be charging by the hour if you think this is anywhere near 2000 hours of work
  - rsj_hn 6y ago
    1. Once you work for a big bureaucracy, you realize how slow this stuff is. In terms of how much actual work it takes, it depends very much on the condition of the test environment -- whether it has been maintained and how much effort is required to get back up and running. Plus, how much paperwork is involved in dealing with the government agency that contracts this out. I can easily see a situation in which you don't even accept jobs that are less than 2000 hours as it's not worth it. 2. What I described is not the actual fix, it is the temporary stopgap. The prison department isn't going to pay someone to click checkboxes all the time for tens of thousands of inmates each year. They will want this info to be set automatically -- e.g. an integration from whatever software system(s) are used to track completion of the coursework to this system, so you are not hiring another employee to sit and click all the time nor do you need to create reporting procedures to get that info into the hands of the person who is clicking. The appropriate design then requires automation, which will require security controls, and it's a pain. It could easily be more than a year of work, again depending on how many systems they need to integrate against, what types of sign off/controls are required, how much paperwork is required, etc. For example, maybe the coursework has no software tracking, in which case they need to throw up a portal and have the people running the course fill out who did what, and then throw up another portal to have someone else review that. Lots of stuff ends up being passed around by ftp or csv uploads. I've seen horror stories. So it really depends on how they plan to do this integration -- the manual button clicking was just an example of a least effort system that relied on a lot of manual labor, but perhaps this is not in their budget either.
    - wly_cdgr 6y ago
      I'm not saying it mightn't be 2000 hours of red tape, incompetence, and corruption. I could believe that easily enough. I'm saying it's not 2000 hours of actual work.
DougN7 6y ago
Multiply by 0.7? Doesn’t that mean the sentence is shortened?
- bigwavedave 6y ago
  Yep! The problem here is that the software doesn't take into account extra release credits earned from a piece of legislation introduced in 2019. Currently, additional credits are earned and the software fails to apply them to the release date, so the parent is saying the fix is to multiply the number of time in the original sentence by .7 to get the new, reduced sentence.