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there is no real justification for the vaccine The vaccines are the only way we’ll be able to sustainably relax the restrictions we’ve faced for the past year.

by hyko 6y ago

there is no real justification for the vaccine The vaccines are the only way we’ll be able to sustainably relax the restrictions we’ve faced for the past year. There is no such thing as perfectly safe, but faced with SARS-CoV-2 or a vaccine, I’ll take the vaccine every time. It’s not even a close contest; it’s like comparing the risks of BASE jumping to walking down the stairs.

vfclists 6y ago
The vaccines are the only way we’ll be able to sustainably relax the restrictions we’ve faced for the past year. This only vindicates my point. The vaccine is being promoted as a means for ending the lockdowns. People are being morally and socially pressured into taking it in the hope that the lockdowns will be lifted.
- hyko 6y ago
  It’s being promoted as a means to end the restrictions because it’s the only plausible mechanism by which we can do so. The alternatives are all pretty terrible, involving restrictions, disability, hardship, and death on a societal scale. All of life the is the management of risk; the plan is to take the abnormally high risks of the virus and turn them into the very low risks from the vaccines. No regulatory body would ever approve SARS-CoV-2 for human use in this context, because of its appalling side effects and high risk of mortality. Nobody in the west is being forced to take a vaccine, it must be a personal choice. It cannot be a free choice though, because people are mortal and they live in a society that has been transformed by a pandemic. The choice people make has consequences, and it’s right that we discuss them. Vaccination against COVID-19 is not just some random act being promoted by people who are keen on needles. It’s literally plans A, B, and C for returning civic life to something resembling normality in a short period of time.
  - thu2111 6y ago
    None of that is true. The modelling that predicted "death on a societal scale" has all been disproven long ago. If lockdowns ended tomorrow nothing would happen; they correlated with nothing at all. See most post here for links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26224981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26224981 Or this post on what happened in Sweden (answer: normal levels of death, COVID not visible when correcting for the impact of 2019): https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2021/01/15/final-report-on-swedish-mortality-2020-anno-covid/ https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2021/01... Ending lockdowns requires people understand the true severity of the situation, which is not "no severity" but is also not anywhere near the severity that was predicted. Vaccines won't help: coronaviruses have historically not been solvable with vaccines because they mutate too fast. The constant dramas over whether they work against new variants is indicative of what might be the equilibrium state of the vaccine strategy.

by hyko 6y ago

vfclists 6y ago

The vaccines are the only way we’ll be able to sustainably relax the restrictions we’ve faced for the past year. This only vindicates my point. The vaccine is being promoted as a means for ending the lockdowns. People are being morally and socially pressured into taking it in the hope that the lockdowns will be lifted.

hyko 6y ago
It’s being promoted as a means to end the restrictions because it’s the only plausible mechanism by which we can do so. The alternatives are all pretty terrible, involving restrictions, disability, hardship, and death on a societal scale. All of life the is the management of risk; the plan is to take the abnormally high risks of the virus and turn them into the very low risks from the vaccines. No regulatory body would ever approve SARS-CoV-2 for human use in this context, because of its appalling side effects and high risk of mortality. Nobody in the west is being forced to take a vaccine, it must be a personal choice. It cannot be a free choice though, because people are mortal and they live in a society that has been transformed by a pandemic. The choice people make has consequences, and it’s right that we discuss them. Vaccination against COVID-19 is not just some random act being promoted by people who are keen on needles. It’s literally plans A, B, and C for returning civic life to something resembling normality in a short period of time.
- thu2111 6y ago
  None of that is true. The modelling that predicted "death on a societal scale" has all been disproven long ago. If lockdowns ended tomorrow nothing would happen; they correlated with nothing at all. See most post here for links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26224981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26224981 Or this post on what happened in Sweden (answer: normal levels of death, COVID not visible when correcting for the impact of 2019): https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2021/01/15/final-report-on-swedish-mortality-2020-anno-covid/ https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2021/01... Ending lockdowns requires people understand the true severity of the situation, which is not "no severity" but is also not anywhere near the severity that was predicted. Vaccines won't help: coronaviruses have historically not been solvable with vaccines because they mutate too fast. The constant dramas over whether they work against new variants is indicative of what might be the equilibrium state of the vaccine strategy.