5 ms·

It's the unfortunate truth that in the hyper capitalistic system we live in, everything that does not in the most direct way result in value added is demeaned,

by esarbe 6y ago

It's the unfortunate truth that in the hyper capitalistic system we live in, everything that does not in the most direct way result in value added is demeaned, discounted and cut. And we've also seen what happened to climate scientists warning against the dangers of climate change for the past fifty years; they were - from a large part of the media, politicians and the public - at best ignored and more often belittled. So, I don't think it is the taxonomists or entomologists are are fault for not screaming loud enough "WE ARE KILLING OUR OWN LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM" from the top of their lungs. It is us that is to blame. We capitalistic producers and consumers that have put the profit motive over any cautionary principle when it comes to health, safety and liberty. Just see how long it took the general public to accept that a substance like lead in gas is detrimental to health. It's ridiculous. Then again; who could have thought that two centuries of ever-increasing predatory ecosystem exploitation could have any negative consequences?

mulmen 6y ago
We don’t live in a hyper capitalist system. This hyperbole is harmful to any conversation about making positive change. This is the intellectual equivalent of burning coal. Your emissions have a cost that others have to pay.
- jay_kyburz 6y ago
  I don't know where you live, but I would call US hyper capitalist. Overly privatized into the hands of the 1%. No health care. Everyday people mostly powerless and government pandering to companies for political support. My country is not much better.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dpoochieni 6y ago
    That's not hyper-capitalistic, that's just fascist/pseudo-feudalist. Throughtout history everyday people have been pretty much powerless in any meaningful way, always, no exception except maybe for early USA history.
  - Krisando 6y ago
    > Everyday people mostly powerless and government pandering to companies for political support. I lived in a post-socialist country, and trust me, just because it's post-socialist doesn't mean that the systems change to other things next day. It wasn't much different. There is a ruling class. Capitalism had nothing to do with it.
- esarbe 6y ago
  I think if you look from a point in time of where the term 'capitalim' was initially heh coined, you will find that it very much is a hyper-capitalistic society we live in. During the time when capitalism was first named an overwhelming majority of the populaces' exchanges of services and goods was not based on any capitalistic exchanges. And with capitalistic exchange I mean the exchange of good that were produced under a capitalistic agreement where the means of production are not in the hands of anyone with immediate social relations to the person controlling the means of labor. Most of the people were living and working in small villages, self-sufficient to a large degree and wholly preoccupied with agriculture. Goods and services were mostly produced in a feudal mode of production, not in a capitalistic mode. Nowadays however, for a vast majority of the population of most industrialized and developing economies of the world this means of exchange is the primary - if not the exclusive - means of procuring goods and services. So, I very much dispute that calling our society 'hyper capitalistic' is hyperbole, despite of the two sharing a prefix.
  - LudwigNagasena 6y ago
    Means of production and money existed since the dawn of civilization. The law of Hammurabi discusses contracts, prices, private property, etc. Also, for example, Rome during the times of Roman Empire had to rely on imports of food from Africa because Appenine agriculture wasn’t self-sufficient. And throughout history in Europe and Middle East trade was a big part of every complex society. These stories about feudal mode of production is just bad outdated 19th century scholarship. It also seems completely ridiculous to call modern states hyper capitalistic when in most countries 35-65% of GDP is controlled by the government (yes, even in the US). 100 years ago it was more like 5% of GDP and income taxes didn’t even exist!
    - esarbe 6y ago
      I think you might be conflating trade with capitalism. The exchange of goods and services for a representative value (i.e. money) is not capitalism. That's just trade. Could you explain why you think that the percentage of GDP a government controls has anything to do with capitalism?
gedy 6y ago
Recent non-capitalist political systems aren't any better at stewarding the environment, so maybe it's something else about humans.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- esarbe 6y ago
  Alas, there might be some truth to that.
Cd00d 6y ago
> everything that does not in the most direct way result in value added is demeaned, discounted and cut Yeah, back when I was working in pure research every time I met someone at a party and explained what I was trying to solve the follow up question invariably was "what is the application?". In general, in my experience, people don't value the pursuit of knowledge or understanding the universe, they value product.
overkalix 6y ago
> everything that does not in the most direct way result in value added is demeaned, discounted and cut. Correction: everything that is not _perceived_ to add value. The amount of bullshit and inefficiencies that are rewarded with exorbitant salaries is simply astonishing.
- esarbe 6y ago
  Agreed. It's all about perception, not about actual value added. Just see e.g. the costs of environmental pollution that are not even considered when 'calculating' the added value.

by esarbe 6y ago

mulmen 6y ago

We don’t live in a hyper capitalist system. This hyperbole is harmful to any conversation about making positive change. This is the intellectual equivalent of burning coal. Your emissions have a cost that others have to pay.

jay_kyburz 6y ago
I don't know where you live, but I would call US hyper capitalist. Overly privatized into the hands of the 1%. No health care. Everyday people mostly powerless and government pandering to companies for political support. My country is not much better.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dpoochieni 6y ago
  That's not hyper-capitalistic, that's just fascist/pseudo-feudalist. Throughtout history everyday people have been pretty much powerless in any meaningful way, always, no exception except maybe for early USA history.
- Krisando 6y ago
  > Everyday people mostly powerless and government pandering to companies for political support. I lived in a post-socialist country, and trust me, just because it's post-socialist doesn't mean that the systems change to other things next day. It wasn't much different. There is a ruling class. Capitalism had nothing to do with it.
esarbe 6y ago
I think if you look from a point in time of where the term 'capitalim' was initially heh coined, you will find that it very much is a hyper-capitalistic society we live in. During the time when capitalism was first named an overwhelming majority of the populaces' exchanges of services and goods was not based on any capitalistic exchanges. And with capitalistic exchange I mean the exchange of good that were produced under a capitalistic agreement where the means of production are not in the hands of anyone with immediate social relations to the person controlling the means of labor. Most of the people were living and working in small villages, self-sufficient to a large degree and wholly preoccupied with agriculture. Goods and services were mostly produced in a feudal mode of production, not in a capitalistic mode. Nowadays however, for a vast majority of the population of most industrialized and developing economies of the world this means of exchange is the primary - if not the exclusive - means of procuring goods and services. So, I very much dispute that calling our society 'hyper capitalistic' is hyperbole, despite of the two sharing a prefix.
- LudwigNagasena 6y ago
  Means of production and money existed since the dawn of civilization. The law of Hammurabi discusses contracts, prices, private property, etc. Also, for example, Rome during the times of Roman Empire had to rely on imports of food from Africa because Appenine agriculture wasn’t self-sufficient. And throughout history in Europe and Middle East trade was a big part of every complex society. These stories about feudal mode of production is just bad outdated 19th century scholarship. It also seems completely ridiculous to call modern states hyper capitalistic when in most countries 35-65% of GDP is controlled by the government (yes, even in the US). 100 years ago it was more like 5% of GDP and income taxes didn’t even exist!
  - esarbe 6y ago
    I think you might be conflating trade with capitalism. The exchange of goods and services for a representative value (i.e. money) is not capitalism. That's just trade. Could you explain why you think that the percentage of GDP a government controls has anything to do with capitalism?

gedy 6y ago

Recent non-capitalist political systems aren't any better at stewarding the environment, so maybe it's something else about humans.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
esarbe 6y ago
Alas, there might be some truth to that.

Cd00d 6y ago

> everything that does not in the most direct way result in value added is demeaned, discounted and cut Yeah, back when I was working in pure research every time I met someone at a party and explained what I was trying to solve the follow up question invariably was "what is the application?". In general, in my experience, people don't value the pursuit of knowledge or understanding the universe, they value product.

overkalix 6y ago

> everything that does not in the most direct way result in value added is demeaned, discounted and cut. Correction: everything that is not _perceived_ to add value. The amount of bullshit and inefficiencies that are rewarded with exorbitant salaries is simply astonishing.

esarbe 6y ago
Agreed. It's all about perception, not about actual value added. Just see e.g. the costs of environmental pollution that are not even considered when 'calculating' the added value.