3 ms·

This is just how bureaucracy typically operates. Everyone knows that the system is messed up, but no one can override the system without potentially huge person

by edbob 6y ago

This is just how bureaucracy typically operates. Everyone knows that the system is messed up, but no one can override the system without potentially huge personal consequences. As a former prison inmate, I honestly think that most of the people affected will be quite happy with the monetary compensation that they'll receive once the courts get done with this. > seems like most of the employees of the Arizona correctional facilities are now guilty of crimes worse than the majority of their inmates. This is destructive thinking. There are surely some employees without relevant authority who are thinking "screw those animals", but there are surely other employees, also without relevant authority, who are sympathetic to the affected prisoners and want to see their cause prevail. None of the employees who work on the actual prisons have any responsibility for this. Releasing a felon is a huge deal and can only be done when ordered. Only the top people at the DOC, at their headquarters, have any authority that could possibly help in this situation. About the "crimes worse than the majority of their inmates" part: If you compare to the crimes inmates were actually convicted of, perhaps they don't look so bad. But quite a few inmates have claimed to me to be guilty of crimes much worse than what they were convicted of. People get caught on the drug charges, but often get away with the violence. What percentage of rape in the hood do you think gets reported to police? 1%? Less?

deleted 6y ago
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cwkoss 6y ago
> But quite a few inmates have claimed to me to be guilty of crimes much worse than what they were convicted of. This is irrelevant and a dangerous ends-justification. No person's imprisonment should be justified by crimes they were not convicted of. We should not seek a justice system that punishes unprovable crimes. What percentage of rapes by prison guards (or police or CEOs or politicians) gets reported to police? What percentage of those reports results in a conviction? Probably far less than "rape in the hood".
- edbob 6y ago
  > This is irrelevant and a dangerous ends-justification. No person's imprisonment should be justified by crimes they were not convicted of. We should not seek a justice system that punishes unprovable crimes. I did not say anything remotely like that. The justice system should absolutely be strictly restricted to proven offenses, and the consequences should be limited to, at max, the letter of the prescribed sentence. What I actually did was to compare atty's quite unfounded accusations that would never survive in court to some significantly better-founded accusations that would also never survive in court. It was basically just a sanity check, and was not intended to have any implications other than to put the brakes on a destructive, polarizing line of rhetoric. > What percentage of rapes by prison guards (or police or CEOs or politicians) gets reported to police? What percentage of those reports results in a conviction? There are cameras everywhere. The staff has to report and investigate any and every complaint about sexual abuse, even the guy that claims that aliens abducted him from his cell and raped him. They will take you to medical and administer a rape kit if you ask, because they will surely get fired if they refuse. Staff and inmates get caught all the time, but usually for consensual sex. Consensual sex is a lot easier to get away with than rape. (The caveat here is that inmates, as wards of the state, are not legally able to give consent, so when a guard gets caught having "consensual" sex with an inmate they are still prosecuted for the state-jail felony charge "improper sexual activity with a person in custody" [0][1]). [0] https://www.ktre.com/story/32833848/affidavit-female-tdcj-correctional-officer-had-sexual-relationship-with-inmate/ https://www.ktre.com/story/32833848/affidavit-female-tdcj-co... [1] https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-39-04.html https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-39-04.htm...

by edbob 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

cwkoss 6y ago

> But quite a few inmates have claimed to me to be guilty of crimes much worse than what they were convicted of. This is irrelevant and a dangerous ends-justification. No person's imprisonment should be justified by crimes they were not convicted of. We should not seek a justice system that punishes unprovable crimes. What percentage of rapes by prison guards (or police or CEOs or politicians) gets reported to police? What percentage of those reports results in a conviction? Probably far less than "rape in the hood".

edbob 6y ago
> This is irrelevant and a dangerous ends-justification. No person's imprisonment should be justified by crimes they were not convicted of. We should not seek a justice system that punishes unprovable crimes. I did not say anything remotely like that. The justice system should absolutely be strictly restricted to proven offenses, and the consequences should be limited to, at max, the letter of the prescribed sentence. What I actually did was to compare atty's quite unfounded accusations that would never survive in court to some significantly better-founded accusations that would also never survive in court. It was basically just a sanity check, and was not intended to have any implications other than to put the brakes on a destructive, polarizing line of rhetoric. > What percentage of rapes by prison guards (or police or CEOs or politicians) gets reported to police? What percentage of those reports results in a conviction? There are cameras everywhere. The staff has to report and investigate any and every complaint about sexual abuse, even the guy that claims that aliens abducted him from his cell and raped him. They will take you to medical and administer a rape kit if you ask, because they will surely get fired if they refuse. Staff and inmates get caught all the time, but usually for consensual sex. Consensual sex is a lot easier to get away with than rape. (The caveat here is that inmates, as wards of the state, are not legally able to give consent, so when a guard gets caught having "consensual" sex with an inmate they are still prosecuted for the state-jail felony charge "improper sexual activity with a person in custody" [0][1]). [0] https://www.ktre.com/story/32833848/affidavit-female-tdcj-correctional-officer-had-sexual-relationship-with-inmate/ https://www.ktre.com/story/32833848/affidavit-female-tdcj-co... [1] https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-39-04.html https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-39-04.htm...