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What this seems to hint at is that doing the absolute laziest possible, mostly-voluntary "lockdown" (ala the "lockdowns" we've seen in America) does not accompl

What this seems to hint at is that doing the absolute laziest possible, mostly-voluntary "lockdown" (ala the "lockdowns" we've seen in America) does not accomplish very much. It's like claiming a brand of toothpaste isn't very effective because you brushed your teeth once a week and still experienced the same level of tooth decay as somebody who never brushed at all. Is it the toothpaste's fault, or your fault because you were too lazy to brush your teeth more than once per week? There's not enough data to say. Maybe it was a truly ineffective toothpaste and no amount of brushing would have helped. You don't know enough to say. Calling anything we've tried in America a "lockdown" is laughable, considering how voluntary and unenforced it was. Lockdown, my ass. More like a polite suggestion to stay at home that most of the country ignored whenever they felt like it.

chasd00 6y ago
laughable or not, the American lockdowns certainly destroyed plenty of livelihoods and devastated a thriving economy where wages were finally rising for the majority. what would a proper lockdown look like to you anyway? I uniformed officer at your front door forcing you to remain inside?
- JohnBooty 6y ago
  I work in the restaurant industry. I definitely understand how disastrous this has been for particular sectors. Do you think that I was somehow denying that? When I called our "lockdowns" laughable, clearly I was referring to their effectiveness w.r.t. stopping the virus. Clearly I was not referring to business impact. That was a point I didn't mention. Is anybody even disputing this has been rough on certain businesses?!?!
mod 6y ago
Perhaps, but meanwhile we're forcibly closing certain businesses and hurting those. I would know, I own one that has been greatly affected (a bar). For reference, my customers starting hanging out at the strip club instead, which didn't have the restrictions imposed (it was based on liquor licenses, which they don't have in my state). So, the lockdown was ineffective at controlling the population or spread, but it still managed to smack my business around.
- JohnBooty 6y ago
  Are you responding to the wrong post, here? I don't recall denying that this lockdown has been disastrous for many businesses. You typed that out as if you were disagreeing or offering a counterpoint. Is anybody on Earth even denying the impact this has had on businesses? I work in the restaurant industry, FWIW. Nobody needs to tell me how disastrous this has been for certain businesses. More importantly than my post, though: I'm truly sorry your bar has been nailed by this while local strip clubs, of all things, have been allowed to operate. That is freaking absurd. I hope your bar can survive and prosper again soon. I have lost a business myself, prior to the pandemic. It's beyond heartbreaking.
  - acdha 6y ago
    Seconding your point: I think hard lockdowns are the only way to halt spread prior to mass vaccination and that’s devastating for businesses if we don’t do anything to help make up lost pay for workers, assist businesses with rent, etc. In some cases you might be able to soften it – pay restaurants to make delivery meal packs for high-risk people, etc. – but something like a bar, movie theater, mall retail shop, etc. in most cities probably doesn’t have an option to pay their rent in most areas without close to normal levels of customer traffic even if most of their staff are laid off. It’d be expensive but other parts of the economy are booming and one point of having things like government debt is recognizing that it helps smooth the impact of disasters. We should be doing a WWII victory bond campaign investing in local businesses.
  - mod 6y ago
    Thanks for the well-wishes. We've been established a long time (about to celebrate 11 years) and I am very financially conservative, so the business had enough capital to go multiple years if we were closed down (no payroll, minimal utilities) and still re-open. We've sporadically been able to open normal hours, reduced hours, reduced capacity, and all kinds of other restricted levels of activity, which has resulted in terrible sales, but smaller losses than we would normally have. It truly is a very small business (9 employees) so its operational cost is pretty low. I pointed out the strip clubs, but of course the casinos are allowed to continue operation as well. They avoided literally all of the regulations we had to obey: capacity, forced social distancing, reduced hours, etc. And of course they don't have the taboo aspect that some people feel with strip clubs, so they've been nice and busy. I have to imagine they're lining the governor's pockets to enjoy such a privileged status.

chasd00 6y ago

laughable or not, the American lockdowns certainly destroyed plenty of livelihoods and devastated a thriving economy where wages were finally rising for the majority. what would a proper lockdown look like to you anyway? I uniformed officer at your front door forcing you to remain inside?

JohnBooty 6y ago
I work in the restaurant industry. I definitely understand how disastrous this has been for particular sectors. Do you think that I was somehow denying that? When I called our "lockdowns" laughable, clearly I was referring to their effectiveness w.r.t. stopping the virus. Clearly I was not referring to business impact. That was a point I didn't mention. Is anybody even disputing this has been rough on certain businesses?!?!

mod 6y ago

Perhaps, but meanwhile we're forcibly closing certain businesses and hurting those. I would know, I own one that has been greatly affected (a bar). For reference, my customers starting hanging out at the strip club instead, which didn't have the restrictions imposed (it was based on liquor licenses, which they don't have in my state). So, the lockdown was ineffective at controlling the population or spread, but it still managed to smack my business around.

JohnBooty 6y ago
Are you responding to the wrong post, here? I don't recall denying that this lockdown has been disastrous for many businesses. You typed that out as if you were disagreeing or offering a counterpoint. Is anybody on Earth even denying the impact this has had on businesses? I work in the restaurant industry, FWIW. Nobody needs to tell me how disastrous this has been for certain businesses. More importantly than my post, though: I'm truly sorry your bar has been nailed by this while local strip clubs, of all things, have been allowed to operate. That is freaking absurd. I hope your bar can survive and prosper again soon. I have lost a business myself, prior to the pandemic. It's beyond heartbreaking.
- acdha 6y ago
  Seconding your point: I think hard lockdowns are the only way to halt spread prior to mass vaccination and that’s devastating for businesses if we don’t do anything to help make up lost pay for workers, assist businesses with rent, etc. In some cases you might be able to soften it – pay restaurants to make delivery meal packs for high-risk people, etc. – but something like a bar, movie theater, mall retail shop, etc. in most cities probably doesn’t have an option to pay their rent in most areas without close to normal levels of customer traffic even if most of their staff are laid off. It’d be expensive but other parts of the economy are booming and one point of having things like government debt is recognizing that it helps smooth the impact of disasters. We should be doing a WWII victory bond campaign investing in local businesses.
- mod 6y ago
  Thanks for the well-wishes. We've been established a long time (about to celebrate 11 years) and I am very financially conservative, so the business had enough capital to go multiple years if we were closed down (no payroll, minimal utilities) and still re-open. We've sporadically been able to open normal hours, reduced hours, reduced capacity, and all kinds of other restricted levels of activity, which has resulted in terrible sales, but smaller losses than we would normally have. It truly is a very small business (9 employees) so its operational cost is pretty low. I pointed out the strip clubs, but of course the casinos are allowed to continue operation as well. They avoided literally all of the regulations we had to obey: capacity, forced social distancing, reduced hours, etc. And of course they don't have the taboo aspect that some people feel with strip clubs, so they've been nice and busy. I have to imagine they're lining the governor's pockets to enjoy such a privileged status.