4 ms·

> Webmachine is an application layer that adds HTTP semantic awareness on top of the excellent bit-pushing and HTTP syntax-management provided by mochiweb, and

> Webmachine is an application layer that adds HTTP semantic awareness on top of the excellent bit-pushing and HTTP syntax-management provided by mochiweb, and provides a simple and clean way to connect that to your application's behavior. Great buzzwords, I have no idea what this project actually does.

capableweb 6y ago
It's less buzzwords and more that you're required to understand HTTP and probably be a programmer to understand what's being said. For you and other non-programmers: https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.html https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.ht... (particularly https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.html#rfc.section.6.4 https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.ht...) Also knowing that mochiweb is a library for doing HTTP servers would help. Once you've learned these two, the sentence immediately becomes clear, what Webmachine is aiming for. I think this happens quite often when you're dealing with a lot of domains you don't understand. I'm not a doctor, so when doctors talk, it can sound like mumbo-jumbo, but I'm sure it makes sense for them, since they are professionals.
- Toutouxc 6y ago
  > For you and other non-programmers > Once you've learned these two, the sentence immediately becomes clear > it can sound like mumbo-jumbo, but I'm sure it makes sense for them, since they are professionals Did you just link a person to a two-kilometer long page about HTTP, assumed they're not a programmer and almost accused them of not being professional enough, because they haven't heard of some Erlang library? > application layer that adds HTTP semantic awareness on top of the excellent bit-pushing and HTTP syntax-management I'm a web developer and my reaction was exactly the same. What the heck does this thing actually do?
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > Did you just link a person to a two-kilometer long page about HTTP, assumed they're not a programmer and almost accused them of not being professional enough, because they haven't heard of some Erlang library? Nope, I linked to a specific section of a HTTP specification that goes through "Content Negotiation" since that was what the topic was about and I wanted to share a resource to spelunker so they could read more about it, as if you're familiar with the topic, what seliopou wrote is not alien.
- pionar 6y ago
  I'm a programmer, and I know HTTP quite well. I know what HTTP semantics are, and this sentence is still gibberish to me. I'd wager the reason I don't is because I'm not that familiar with the erlang ecosystem, so have no idea what mochiweb is, and don't know what this does differently. Your first sentence was quite condescending, FYI, not sure if it was meant to be.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > Your first sentence was quite condescending, FYI, not sure if it was meant to be. No, it was not and thank you for flagging that. Is it condescending to assume one is not a web developer if they don't know content negotiation? I thought that was Web 101 and pretty much one of the first things you go through when learning about HTTP, but maybe things have changed as of late. I'm sorry spelunker if my message came off as condescending, I have no real idea of your professional and was only trying to provide a resource to learn more, not to push anyone away.
    - resonantjacket5 6y ago
      I think you can safely assume most people on here are some sort of programmer or at least tech-related. We know about content negotiation it's probably the `Webmachine` `HTTP semantic awareness` `bit-pushing` `HTTP syntax-management` and `mochiweb` that not many people would know. I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to be sarcastic but even your current comment is kinda scathing.
      - dmitriid 6y ago
        webmachine, mochiweb etc. come from Erlang. webmachine is one of the earliest libraries I'm aware of that tried to think carefully about HTTP semantics and structured it's work with restful APIs (or web requests in general) according to an actual diagram that you can see here: https://github.com/basho/webmachine/blob/develop/docs/http-headers-status-v3.png https://github.com/basho/webmachine/blob/develop/docs/http-h... There's an expanded and re-worked version that builds on this here: https://github.com/for-GET/http-decision-diagram/tree/master/doc https://github.com/for-GET/http-decision-diagram/tree/master... (follow the links to system, request etc. to see the reasoning and references for each step)
- spelunker 6y ago
  Thanks, I'm a programmer professionally, and I broadly understand HTTP and the language of the web. Talking down to me is really helpful though. It's true, I don't know erlang, or mochiweb, or the nitty-gritty of content negotiation, but OP presented this library as an alternative to "accept and respond with JSON" so I attempted to read the readme because I was curious. And then quickly lost my curiosity when I again, had no idea what this library actually did. If a readme is meant to be an inviting and basic overview of what a library does and why I should use it, the readme failed.
resonantjacket5 6y ago
I think its about adding semantic web stuff for mochiweb servers in their response? After clicking through a couple links I'm still not quite sure what it does.

capableweb 6y ago

It's less buzzwords and more that you're required to understand HTTP and probably be a programmer to understand what's being said. For you and other non-programmers: https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.html https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.ht... (particularly https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.html#rfc.section.6.4 https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-03.ht...) Also knowing that mochiweb is a library for doing HTTP servers would help. Once you've learned these two, the sentence immediately becomes clear, what Webmachine is aiming for. I think this happens quite often when you're dealing with a lot of domains you don't understand. I'm not a doctor, so when doctors talk, it can sound like mumbo-jumbo, but I'm sure it makes sense for them, since they are professionals.

Toutouxc 6y ago
> For you and other non-programmers > Once you've learned these two, the sentence immediately becomes clear > it can sound like mumbo-jumbo, but I'm sure it makes sense for them, since they are professionals Did you just link a person to a two-kilometer long page about HTTP, assumed they're not a programmer and almost accused them of not being professional enough, because they haven't heard of some Erlang library? > application layer that adds HTTP semantic awareness on top of the excellent bit-pushing and HTTP syntax-management I'm a web developer and my reaction was exactly the same. What the heck does this thing actually do?
- capableweb 6y ago
  > Did you just link a person to a two-kilometer long page about HTTP, assumed they're not a programmer and almost accused them of not being professional enough, because they haven't heard of some Erlang library? Nope, I linked to a specific section of a HTTP specification that goes through "Content Negotiation" since that was what the topic was about and I wanted to share a resource to spelunker so they could read more about it, as if you're familiar with the topic, what seliopou wrote is not alien.
pionar 6y ago
I'm a programmer, and I know HTTP quite well. I know what HTTP semantics are, and this sentence is still gibberish to me. I'd wager the reason I don't is because I'm not that familiar with the erlang ecosystem, so have no idea what mochiweb is, and don't know what this does differently. Your first sentence was quite condescending, FYI, not sure if it was meant to be.
- capableweb 6y ago
  > Your first sentence was quite condescending, FYI, not sure if it was meant to be. No, it was not and thank you for flagging that. Is it condescending to assume one is not a web developer if they don't know content negotiation? I thought that was Web 101 and pretty much one of the first things you go through when learning about HTTP, but maybe things have changed as of late. I'm sorry spelunker if my message came off as condescending, I have no real idea of your professional and was only trying to provide a resource to learn more, not to push anyone away.
  - resonantjacket5 6y ago
    I think you can safely assume most people on here are some sort of programmer or at least tech-related. We know about content negotiation it's probably the `Webmachine` `HTTP semantic awareness` `bit-pushing` `HTTP syntax-management` and `mochiweb` that not many people would know. I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to be sarcastic but even your current comment is kinda scathing.
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      webmachine, mochiweb etc. come from Erlang. webmachine is one of the earliest libraries I'm aware of that tried to think carefully about HTTP semantics and structured it's work with restful APIs (or web requests in general) according to an actual diagram that you can see here: https://github.com/basho/webmachine/blob/develop/docs/http-headers-status-v3.png https://github.com/basho/webmachine/blob/develop/docs/http-h... There's an expanded and re-worked version that builds on this here: https://github.com/for-GET/http-decision-diagram/tree/master/doc https://github.com/for-GET/http-decision-diagram/tree/master... (follow the links to system, request etc. to see the reasoning and references for each step)
spelunker 6y ago
Thanks, I'm a programmer professionally, and I broadly understand HTTP and the language of the web. Talking down to me is really helpful though. It's true, I don't know erlang, or mochiweb, or the nitty-gritty of content negotiation, but OP presented this library as an alternative to "accept and respond with JSON" so I attempted to read the readme because I was curious. And then quickly lost my curiosity when I again, had no idea what this library actually did. If a readme is meant to be an inviting and basic overview of what a library does and why I should use it, the readme failed.

resonantjacket5 6y ago

I think its about adding semantic web stuff for mochiweb servers in their response? After clicking through a couple links I'm still not quite sure what it does.