6 ms·

Yeah, but it's by no means just that. I was thinking of the simplest things, like messages you've read not showing up again (unless asked for), using a single k

Yeah, but it's by no means just that. I was thinking of the simplest things, like messages you've read not showing up again (unless asked for), using a single key to advance to the next message, pressing a key to mark a thread read. The advanced threading and killfile features were great, of course, but the web interface is just so fantastically less convenient for basic stuff - it's unbelievable. Imagine going to the HN front page, clicking on all the threads you're not going to follow and marking them read or killed (meaning they don't show up again), and then clicking on the threads you want brings you to the last UNREAD messages in those threads. And you press space to go the next unread message. Imagine all forums being like that. Give me that, and I don't care if you give me a vertical or a horizontal tree display (tho' I prefer the trn way). It seems so simple that I almost can't believe I'm not missing something subtle.

joe_bleau 15y ago
Exactly! Even HN (one of the best web forums, IMO), is still clunky compared to usenet. Usenet made it so easy and efficient to follow topics you were interested in while ignoring the crap. I think I'd be willing to give up the ability to upvote comments/submissions in exchange for a good usenet interface to HN.
- Natsu 15y ago
  > I think I'd be willing to give up the ability to upvote comments/submissions in exchange for a good usenet interface to HN. Given that this is HN. I wonder how long before someone implements something like that for fun.
btilly 15y ago
The simple things that you're describing are all in gmail.
- swaits 15y ago
  Not really, no.
  - btilly 15y ago
    Read http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 and then tell me which of the simple described features are not in gmail. Be specific so that I can be specific in explaining how it is, in fact, present. (Do remember that gmail's keyboard shortcuts were designed by people who had used Usenet extensively.)
    - foobarqux 15y ago
      How about "T K" (mark current message and children as read) and "A T" (go up-thread to original post) in gnus. If your claim is that Gmail implements most of the "simple" features present in powerful news-readers then it is manifestly absurd.
      - btilly 15y ago
        My claim was that the list of things in http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2622662 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2622662 are in gmail. Of course real newsreaders have a lot of features that gmail doesn't.
- yaakov34 15y ago
  Have to disagree, even though I'm a big gmail user and I do like it way better than the other webmail systems. A thread in gmail looks more like a pile than a real thread - it's nowhere near as smooth as navigating in a newsreader. It presents newer messages on top, and I sometimes find myself confused when I can't tell if certain text is new or quoted in an old message. And there is no "kill thread" - you can set up a filter, but that's a longish operation and I don't think it lets you say "I don't want to follow this particular discussion" as opposed to "filter out this subject/author". It all comes down to gmail being a mail system, not a forum system. And goog's forum system, groups, is pretty sad.
  - skybrian 15y ago
    In GMail, you can mute a discussion using the "m" key. (There is also a GMail labs feature that makes it work a bit better.) Also, within a thread, new messages are posted at the bottom.
  - btilly 15y ago
    You should really read through http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 to find out what gmail does that you don't know it does. For instance the "kill thread" functionality that you don't think exists is called mute and is available by pressing m. I stand by my previous comment. Every piece of basic functionality that was requested is actually present in gmail. The aesthetics are not the same, and some things require hitting two keys (for instance y then o to archive the current message and move to the next - keeping the current one from showing up again unless you look for it). But the basic functionality is all there.
    - _delirium 15y ago
      Is there a way to get gmail to highlight posts on mailing lists that are replies to one of your own messages to the list? That's one of the main features of newsreaders I miss (HN's threads?id= view is kind of a clunky approximation).
      - 15y ago

joe_bleau 15y ago

Exactly! Even HN (one of the best web forums, IMO), is still clunky compared to usenet. Usenet made it so easy and efficient to follow topics you were interested in while ignoring the crap. I think I'd be willing to give up the ability to upvote comments/submissions in exchange for a good usenet interface to HN.

Natsu 15y ago
> I think I'd be willing to give up the ability to upvote comments/submissions in exchange for a good usenet interface to HN. Given that this is HN. I wonder how long before someone implements something like that for fun.

btilly 15y ago

The simple things that you're describing are all in gmail.

swaits 15y ago
Not really, no.
- btilly 15y ago
  Read http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 and then tell me which of the simple described features are not in gmail. Be specific so that I can be specific in explaining how it is, in fact, present. (Do remember that gmail's keyboard shortcuts were designed by people who had used Usenet extensively.)
  - foobarqux 15y ago
    How about "T K" (mark current message and children as read) and "A T" (go up-thread to original post) in gnus. If your claim is that Gmail implements most of the "simple" features present in powerful news-readers then it is manifestly absurd.
    - btilly 15y ago
      My claim was that the list of things in http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2622662 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2622662 are in gmail. Of course real newsreaders have a lot of features that gmail doesn't.
yaakov34 15y ago
Have to disagree, even though I'm a big gmail user and I do like it way better than the other webmail systems. A thread in gmail looks more like a pile than a real thread - it's nowhere near as smooth as navigating in a newsreader. It presents newer messages on top, and I sometimes find myself confused when I can't tell if certain text is new or quoted in an old message. And there is no "kill thread" - you can set up a filter, but that's a longish operation and I don't think it lets you say "I don't want to follow this particular discussion" as opposed to "filter out this subject/author". It all comes down to gmail being a mail system, not a forum system. And goog's forum system, groups, is pretty sad.
- skybrian 15y ago
  In GMail, you can mute a discussion using the "m" key. (There is also a GMail labs feature that makes it work a bit better.) Also, within a thread, new messages are posted at the bottom.
- btilly 15y ago
  You should really read through http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6594 to find out what gmail does that you don't know it does. For instance the "kill thread" functionality that you don't think exists is called mute and is available by pressing m. I stand by my previous comment. Every piece of basic functionality that was requested is actually present in gmail. The aesthetics are not the same, and some things require hitting two keys (for instance y then o to archive the current message and move to the next - keeping the current one from showing up again unless you look for it). But the basic functionality is all there.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    Is there a way to get gmail to highlight posts on mailing lists that are replies to one of your own messages to the list? That's one of the main features of newsreaders I miss (HN's threads?id= view is kind of a clunky approximation).
    - 15y ago