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Also, a lot of British discussion about the Second World War is pretty horrible. There's often a mix jingoism and ignorance of what happened, especially of some

by DanBC 6y ago

Also, a lot of British discussion about the Second World War is pretty horrible. There's often a mix jingoism and ignorance of what happened, especially of some of the things Britain did.

klelatti 6y ago
Whilst agreeing that much of the discussion of WW2 in the UK is unhealthy - especially in the tabloid press etc - not sure that the "ignorance of some of the things that Britain did " is valid. There has been and continues to be wide awareness of tactics like 'area bombing' and their consequences. The biggest criticism I think is that there is too much discussion of the war and that it overstates the UK's role.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  I'm living in Berlin at the moment, and the whole subject is fascinating and also fraught with difficulties. It's a totally different perspective than British jingoism. The mixture of pride and shame is such a contrast. Berlin tends to focus on the Wall rather than the War and I can understand why. > tactics like 'area bombing' and their consequences My grandfather was in the RAF (not bomber command, but still). I visited Dresden recently, and felt a need to apologise to the city.
  - klelatti 6y ago
    I think that Britain's relationship with the war is complex and flawed in many ways. Germany has dealt with its role in the war in a much more healthy way. I suppose that it was the word 'jingoism' which prompted me to reply to the earlier post. I'm not sure that this really captures the prevalent attitude, which is more of being a plucky underdog that fought alone against the Nazi regime. This is obviously rubbish but has then been used as an excuse to gloss over some of the poorer aspects of Britain's behaviour (and not just in the war). I do think that the perception has changed (or been manipulated) over the years. The films and TV of the 60s and 70s played a big part in creating this myth and more recently the tabloids and certain politicians (who are jingoistic) have exploited it ruthlessly to further their own agendas.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      > Germany has dealt with its role in the war in a much more healthy way. For most of the population, this is probably true. But I think the mixture of shame and pride is feeding the far right in Germany - who then feel the pride without the shame. This is growing as it becomes more politically and socially acceptable to express anything but shame and apologies about the war.

by DanBC 6y ago

Also, a lot of British discussion about the Second World War is pretty horrible. There's often a mix jingoism and ignorance of what happened, especially of some of the things Britain did.

klelatti 6y ago

Whilst agreeing that much of the discussion of WW2 in the UK is unhealthy - especially in the tabloid press etc - not sure that the "ignorance of some of the things that Britain did " is valid. There has been and continues to be wide awareness of tactics like 'area bombing' and their consequences. The biggest criticism I think is that there is too much discussion of the war and that it overstates the UK's role.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
I'm living in Berlin at the moment, and the whole subject is fascinating and also fraught with difficulties. It's a totally different perspective than British jingoism. The mixture of pride and shame is such a contrast. Berlin tends to focus on the Wall rather than the War and I can understand why. > tactics like 'area bombing' and their consequences My grandfather was in the RAF (not bomber command, but still). I visited Dresden recently, and felt a need to apologise to the city.
- klelatti 6y ago
  I think that Britain's relationship with the war is complex and flawed in many ways. Germany has dealt with its role in the war in a much more healthy way. I suppose that it was the word 'jingoism' which prompted me to reply to the earlier post. I'm not sure that this really captures the prevalent attitude, which is more of being a plucky underdog that fought alone against the Nazi regime. This is obviously rubbish but has then been used as an excuse to gloss over some of the poorer aspects of Britain's behaviour (and not just in the war). I do think that the perception has changed (or been manipulated) over the years. The films and TV of the 60s and 70s played a big part in creating this myth and more recently the tabloids and certain politicians (who are jingoistic) have exploited it ruthlessly to further their own agendas.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    > Germany has dealt with its role in the war in a much more healthy way. For most of the population, this is probably true. But I think the mixture of shame and pride is feeding the far right in Germany - who then feel the pride without the shame. This is growing as it becomes more politically and socially acceptable to express anything but shame and apologies about the war.