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It's concerning that this conflation of teaching and childcare is being normalized now. It leads to unnecessarily long school hours in the US. The school is set

It's concerning that this conflation of teaching and childcare is being normalized now. It leads to unnecessarily long school hours in the US. The school is set up as the only source of social interaction, that absolves parents from setting up any other sort of familial and social interactions for their kids. > But getting kids out of the house so parents can work and into a social environment where they see other kids is extremely important for most families and society as a whole. Yes, and that can be accomplished in a variety of ways, of which schools are one way (probably the riskiest way, in the current pandemic). Take your kids to the playground in the evening. Set up social playdates with other families. Let your kid sleep over at the neighbor's house. Let them visit their cousins and grandparents. Let them walk to school with other kids. Give a firm "no" to your boss for that 4pm meeting! From what I have seen, most American kids seem to have no friends near where they live, and most American families have too many helicopter parents to let these normal channels of social interaction to work as intended. So they prefer that teachers serve as the helicopter for the majority of their workday instead. Normalization of the workday to adjust to the fact that most families have working parents is what's needed, not saddling teachers with absorbing that extra load of childcare in addition to teaching.

massysett 6y ago
This is an odd conclusion considering that US school days are shorter than many other countries and that the US has fewer school days than many other countries.
anonAndOn 6y ago
Optimal child health requires this happen on a daily basis. Schools facilitate 5/7ths of this. Do you have the time and energy to pick up the slack?
- kiba 6y ago
  When I was young, I played outside with other kids, adventure to other neighborhoods. Pretty much about the most dangerous things are the traffic when we cross over. The adults don't need to set up playdates, but they do need to think about traffic and general safety.
  - anonAndOn 6y ago
    >they do need to think about traffic and general safety ...and wearing a mask, social distancing and germ theory.
zeven7 6y ago
Where are you getting your information about what life is like for American families? Also small children require way more constant attention than you seem to admit.
pavel_lishin 6y ago
> Give a firm "no" to your boss for that 4pm meeting! I can do that because I work remotely for a software company. How's someone who's working the drive-through going to do that? How's the manager of a Walmart going to do that? A pharmacist, a bank teller, a delivery driver? Taking your kids to the playground in the evening does not address the fact that most people have to work during the day.
- rovr138 6y ago
  For places like fast food and Walmart, 'availability' is one of the things you get asked. What sucks is that if you don't have enough, you might not get hired or not get hours. But that's yet another issue with our society.
- quadrifoliate 6y ago
  > I can do that because I work remotely for a software company. How's someone who's working the drive-through going to do that? How's the manager of a Walmart going to do that? A pharmacist, a bank teller, a delivery driver? No solution can serve 100% of the people 100% of the time. I would say that American society is already unbalanced enough in this regard that most people who can tell their bosses no for a 4pm meeting (e.g. the administrator participating in a meeting for some committee) are not doing so. For example, in your example, a bank teller would tell their boss, who would arrange for a replacement. Maybe the bank would have to hire a few more workers, but normalizing this would help a lot. What happens now is that people get punished for it, implicitly as well as explicitly in a fashion that seems to be a holdover from the days of the 1950s. Addressing this as a society rather than shifting that responsibility on to teachers would, in my opinion, be more equitable and sustainable. > Taking your kids to the playground in the evening does not address the fact that most people have to work during the day. Yes, the cherry-picked suggestion that you mentioned does not. How ever, the other suggestion that I had in the same paragraph of having them stay with their grandparents or cousins would address this problem. Treating “normal social interactions“ and “watching over kids when their parents are not around“ is exactly what I am recommending against.
tikkabhuna 6y ago
Wouldn't it be better to normalise it further? Parents need a reliable method of childcare that they can plan around. Why not say that schools are a mix between learning and childcare, learning finishes at X and then there is activities/playground time after that. > Give a firm "no" to your boss for that 4pm meeting! Great for those that can. What about families that require physical presence or abnormal hours? > most American kids seem to have no friends near where they live As a Brit in London, I don't live near many of my friends. We often meet up in central London as its convenient. When I was a kid, many of my friends didn't live near me because school was a few villages away and I liked people from other villages. Kids don't choose their friends based on location. To me, it seems inefficient for every parent to sort their own childcare when you could centralise it into an institution dedicated to children?
- quadrifoliate 6y ago
  > To me, it seems inefficient for every parent to sort their own childcare when you could centralise it into an institution dedicated to children? Great! In America, some schools do provide these sorts of programs, called "after-care" for people who cannot take charge of their children after school time. They are typically not handled by teachers, and you have to pay extra for them. There are solutions like kibbutz, which other countries have implemented, that would be a good fit as well. In practice, I have observed that enough parents do seem to be able to handle their childcare (where I live) that it's not a free program that's paid for by society through increased taxes. But that's a possible option as well.

massysett 6y ago

This is an odd conclusion considering that US school days are shorter than many other countries and that the US has fewer school days than many other countries.

anonAndOn 6y ago

Optimal child health requires this happen on a daily basis. Schools facilitate 5/7ths of this. Do you have the time and energy to pick up the slack?

kiba 6y ago
When I was young, I played outside with other kids, adventure to other neighborhoods. Pretty much about the most dangerous things are the traffic when we cross over. The adults don't need to set up playdates, but they do need to think about traffic and general safety.
- anonAndOn 6y ago
  >they do need to think about traffic and general safety ...and wearing a mask, social distancing and germ theory.

zeven7 6y ago

Where are you getting your information about what life is like for American families? Also small children require way more constant attention than you seem to admit.

pavel_lishin 6y ago

> Give a firm "no" to your boss for that 4pm meeting! I can do that because I work remotely for a software company. How's someone who's working the drive-through going to do that? How's the manager of a Walmart going to do that? A pharmacist, a bank teller, a delivery driver? Taking your kids to the playground in the evening does not address the fact that most people have to work during the day.

rovr138 6y ago
For places like fast food and Walmart, 'availability' is one of the things you get asked. What sucks is that if you don't have enough, you might not get hired or not get hours. But that's yet another issue with our society.
quadrifoliate 6y ago
> I can do that because I work remotely for a software company. How's someone who's working the drive-through going to do that? How's the manager of a Walmart going to do that? A pharmacist, a bank teller, a delivery driver? No solution can serve 100% of the people 100% of the time. I would say that American society is already unbalanced enough in this regard that most people who can tell their bosses no for a 4pm meeting (e.g. the administrator participating in a meeting for some committee) are not doing so. For example, in your example, a bank teller would tell their boss, who would arrange for a replacement. Maybe the bank would have to hire a few more workers, but normalizing this would help a lot. What happens now is that people get punished for it, implicitly as well as explicitly in a fashion that seems to be a holdover from the days of the 1950s. Addressing this as a society rather than shifting that responsibility on to teachers would, in my opinion, be more equitable and sustainable. > Taking your kids to the playground in the evening does not address the fact that most people have to work during the day. Yes, the cherry-picked suggestion that you mentioned does not. How ever, the other suggestion that I had in the same paragraph of having them stay with their grandparents or cousins would address this problem. Treating “normal social interactions“ and “watching over kids when their parents are not around“ is exactly what I am recommending against.

tikkabhuna 6y ago

Wouldn't it be better to normalise it further? Parents need a reliable method of childcare that they can plan around. Why not say that schools are a mix between learning and childcare, learning finishes at X and then there is activities/playground time after that. > Give a firm "no" to your boss for that 4pm meeting! Great for those that can. What about families that require physical presence or abnormal hours? > most American kids seem to have no friends near where they live As a Brit in London, I don't live near many of my friends. We often meet up in central London as its convenient. When I was a kid, many of my friends didn't live near me because school was a few villages away and I liked people from other villages. Kids don't choose their friends based on location. To me, it seems inefficient for every parent to sort their own childcare when you could centralise it into an institution dedicated to children?

quadrifoliate 6y ago
> To me, it seems inefficient for every parent to sort their own childcare when you could centralise it into an institution dedicated to children? Great! In America, some schools do provide these sorts of programs, called "after-care" for people who cannot take charge of their children after school time. They are typically not handled by teachers, and you have to pay extra for them. There are solutions like kibbutz, which other countries have implemented, that would be a good fit as well. In practice, I have observed that enough parents do seem to be able to handle their childcare (where I live) that it's not a free program that's paid for by society through increased taxes. But that's a possible option as well.