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Important question: If you receive Bitcoin which was originally received as a ransom, could you be held legally liable even if you weren't the thief? I suspect

Important question: If you receive Bitcoin which was originally received as a ransom, could you be held legally liable even if you weren't the thief? I suspect that such ransomed crypto would be forever tainted, as would anything ledgers that touched it. The US has a number of laws to criminalize comingling of money gained from criminal enterprise, doesn't it? This makes owning any crypto potentially dangerous imo.

vmception 6y ago
Then you should be obfuscating the origin of your earned bitcoin just like the criminals Or is the reality that criminal and non-criminals funds are already being obfuscated regularly because bitcoin is 12 years old and people already thought of this problem a decade ago
- grumple 6y ago
  Isn’t the whole issue here that you can’t obfuscate the origin of the Bitcoin? The transactions by Hyundai to buy the Bitcoin would be known; the transfer of those bitcoins thereafter ad infinitum are all documented in the ledger. There is no obfuscation. As others said, the only way out is to trade for another crypto that has secrecy (Monero).
  - vmception 6y ago
    you answered your own question. when you trade your bitcoin out for Monero, someone else has received your bitcoin and its their problem. did you just frame that person, or are the other people following the bitcoin transactions between addresses just wasting their time. do those people even know that one of the series of transactions they've been following for years was a trade for Monero? no, they don't. this reality is indistinguishable between legal and illegal transactions. for anyone passing by: the scenarios so far are based on starting with bitcoin, briefly swapping to monero, and ending with clean bitcoin. many people start with Monero, and only get the amount of clean bitcoin they need when necessary to pay for things, which completely alters the problems and solutions.
    - grumple 6y ago
      Right, that’s my point: the recipient of those Bitcoin is receiving stolen property / dirty money. I’d expect that the US government could easily seize the property (as they already do for cash) and potentially imprison the recipients.

vmception 6y ago

Then you should be obfuscating the origin of your earned bitcoin just like the criminals Or is the reality that criminal and non-criminals funds are already being obfuscated regularly because bitcoin is 12 years old and people already thought of this problem a decade ago

grumple 6y ago
Isn’t the whole issue here that you can’t obfuscate the origin of the Bitcoin? The transactions by Hyundai to buy the Bitcoin would be known; the transfer of those bitcoins thereafter ad infinitum are all documented in the ledger. There is no obfuscation. As others said, the only way out is to trade for another crypto that has secrecy (Monero).
- vmception 6y ago
  you answered your own question. when you trade your bitcoin out for Monero, someone else has received your bitcoin and its their problem. did you just frame that person, or are the other people following the bitcoin transactions between addresses just wasting their time. do those people even know that one of the series of transactions they've been following for years was a trade for Monero? no, they don't. this reality is indistinguishable between legal and illegal transactions. for anyone passing by: the scenarios so far are based on starting with bitcoin, briefly swapping to monero, and ending with clean bitcoin. many people start with Monero, and only get the amount of clean bitcoin they need when necessary to pay for things, which completely alters the problems and solutions.
  - grumple 6y ago
    Right, that’s my point: the recipient of those Bitcoin is receiving stolen property / dirty money. I’d expect that the US government could easily seize the property (as they already do for cash) and potentially imprison the recipients.