5 ms·

Kea parrots perform domain-general statistical inference

83 points by giorgiop 6y ago

giorgiop 6y ago
And article on the news (2020) https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-03-04/nz-kea-parrot-understand-probabilities/12018464 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-03-04/nz-kea-parrot...
xiphias2 6y ago
AI is still far away from being able to solve these tasks, like detecting the separator and understanding its consequences.
- giorgiop 6y ago
  Those bird brains had millions of years of evolution to figure those out :)
bhntr3 6y ago
Kea are very playful. They're also annoyingly naughty. But they're beautiful and I love them. Here's a story about Kea I heard from a park ranger when I was in New Zealand. The rangers have traps for non-native predators scattered throughout the park. The traps are basically a big mouse trap in a box (I think.) When going around to reset the traps they found that someone was setting them off with nothing inside. They thought it was hikers. So they set up some cameras. Instead, it was the keas. They would come to the trap with a stick in their beaks. Then they'd use the stick to trigger the trap. It made a loud boom when it closed. They'd laugh and move to the next trap. They actually have a distinctive laugh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N37rN29nUIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N37rN29nUIc) I think they're one of those species, like octopi or maybe elephants, that are a lot smarter than we understand or know how to quantify. It's cool that they're getting the recognition they deserve. Even though they're little bastards.
- laingc 6y ago
  During the works on the Milford Sound tunnel, the workers kept coming back to site to find their road cones in the middle of the road. They didn't know how this kept happening, so they set up a camera on site. Kea were pulling the cones into the middle of the road to stop traffic, because when the traffic stopped the tourists would get out and feed the kea. Douglas Adams joked about dolphins and white mice because he'd never encountered kea...
  - geokon 6y ago
    I dunno if I missed the joke, or it's a funny coincidence.. but Douglas Adams talks at length about Keas in his book "Last Chance to See"
    - mkl 6y ago
      He talks about kea a little there, but a lot more about another weird NZ parrot, the kakapo. I think it's a coincidence (or I missed the joke too).
    - kwhitefoot 6y ago
      Never read The Hitchhiker's Guide? The dolphins leave this message as they leave Earth: "So long, and thanks for all the fish." Besides the mice the dolphins are the most intelligent species on the planet.
- mkl 6y ago
  There are some surprising-seeming statements one can make about kea. They are alpine parrots. They are omnivorous parrots. They like to destructively investigate things, anything they can, hiking gear, ski clothing, roofs, cars, helicopters, boats, kayaks, etc.*; if they can take something apart or pull something off, they will. We're kind of lucky they're alpine parrots, and stay away from the cities. * https://www.keaconservation.co.nz/support-kea/kea-proofing/ https://www.keaconservation.co.nz/support-kea/kea-proofing/ Any rubber part like wiper blades or window seals is fun to tear apart, as is accessible wiring. Car rental companies have warnings like this: "Please do not leave any of our convertible hire vehicles unattended in the Arthurs Pass National Park area. Local birds called Keas will likely damage the soft top of the vehicle and this damage will not be covered by your rental insurance." https://www.touchdowncarrental.co.nz/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.touchdowncarrental.co.nz/frequently-asked-questi... There are more-surprising statements about kakapo, relatives of kea, but not their closest. They are nocturnal parrots. They are flightless parrots. They got down to just 51 individuals (now over 200). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo
fiftyacorn 6y ago
I watched a program about how under threat keas are from non native predators like weasel's. Hope NZ gets on top of this
- mkl 6y ago
  Stoats more than weasels (related mustelids though). NZ has no native land mammals (just some small bats and sea mammals like seals and dolphins), so almost any mammal here is an introduced pest, and our native birds have suffered massively, given they didn't evolve for this kind of threat. There are many articles about the goals and process of getting rid of the pests. E.g. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48702762 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48702762, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/22/big-kill https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/22/big-kill I suspect our willingness to quickly go all-in on Covid elimination owes something to our familiarity with this other kind of biological threat elimination (a much bigger, longer process). Historically though, the biggest threat to kea in much of the 19th and 20th centuries was people. Some kea peck into sheep's backs, and there was a bounty on them for many years (grrr). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea
  - EdwardDiego 6y ago
    Weasels are just as bad for egg raiding and explosive population growth after a beech mast rodent plague, but not as lethal for the adult birds.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Reventlov 6y ago
I learned about that just yesterday, watching « Chris Packham's Animal Einsteins » ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000slks https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000slks ) which might be OP source too :)
- giorgiop 6y ago
  Same here! So I went and search for the science source
petargyurov 6y ago
In case any camera trap folk are here, I'm currently volunteering with the NZ Department of Conservation to build an AI-assisted image sorting tool that speeds up the weeding out of empty images. https://github.com/petargyurov/megadetector-gui https://github.com/petargyurov/megadetector-gui This is currently used to assist the conservation efforts of various endemic species such as the kakapo, kea and takahe. (The ML model used is not limited to just these species!)
- stargazer-3 6y ago
  I was playing around with MegaDetector and it's wonderful. Works surprisingly well, although it does have a tendency to classify tree stumps as animals. Wish it would come with some kind of sequence aware background removal feature.
  - petargyurov 6y ago
    The authors are currently working on the next iteration of the model which will hopefully come with a few improvements. AFAIK, they are keen on getting their hands on data that proved difficult for the model -- I suggest you get in touch with them if you think you could help!
    - stargazer-3 6y ago
      Good suggestion, but the data is semi-private and I have no ownership of it. May be worth a shot though, thanks!
- mkingston 6y ago
  This is great. Speaking as a Kiwi, err, "conservation enthusiast": thank you for your work. May I ask: I see you're based in London and I'm curious what motivated you to work on this?
  - petargyurov 6y ago
    Thanks :) I had been looking to enter the conservation space and at the time I had plans to travel to NZ for tourism purposes. The two ideas kind of merged, and knowing that NZ has lots of cool species I figured I'd check out their conservation department. I sent out an email asking them if they need any help with anything and that's one of the things they were keen to have.
da39a3ee 6y ago
Where can I read more about the colored rectangle plot type used in fig. 1 to illustrate proportions?
- giorgiop 6y ago
  I don't think it's a standard plot. It's a cartoon representation of the actual jars containing coloured rectangles that were shown to the birds.
kwhitefoot 6y ago
The inference that I draw from reading the comments is that the world definitely needs more keas!

83 points by giorgiop 6y ago

And article on the news (2020) https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-03-04/nz-kea-parrot-understand-probabilities/12018464 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-03-04/nz-kea-parrot...

xiphias2 6y ago

AI is still far away from being able to solve these tasks, like detecting the separator and understanding its consequences.

giorgiop 6y ago
Those bird brains had millions of years of evolution to figure those out :)

bhntr3 6y ago

Kea are very playful. They're also annoyingly naughty. But they're beautiful and I love them. Here's a story about Kea I heard from a park ranger when I was in New Zealand. The rangers have traps for non-native predators scattered throughout the park. The traps are basically a big mouse trap in a box (I think.) When going around to reset the traps they found that someone was setting them off with nothing inside. They thought it was hikers. So they set up some cameras. Instead, it was the keas. They would come to the trap with a stick in their beaks. Then they'd use the stick to trigger the trap. It made a loud boom when it closed. They'd laugh and move to the next trap. They actually have a distinctive laugh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N37rN29nUIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N37rN29nUIc) I think they're one of those species, like octopi or maybe elephants, that are a lot smarter than we understand or know how to quantify. It's cool that they're getting the recognition they deserve. Even though they're little bastards.

laingc 6y ago
During the works on the Milford Sound tunnel, the workers kept coming back to site to find their road cones in the middle of the road. They didn't know how this kept happening, so they set up a camera on site. Kea were pulling the cones into the middle of the road to stop traffic, because when the traffic stopped the tourists would get out and feed the kea. Douglas Adams joked about dolphins and white mice because he'd never encountered kea...
- geokon 6y ago
  I dunno if I missed the joke, or it's a funny coincidence.. but Douglas Adams talks at length about Keas in his book "Last Chance to See"
  - mkl 6y ago
    He talks about kea a little there, but a lot more about another weird NZ parrot, the kakapo. I think it's a coincidence (or I missed the joke too).
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    Never read The Hitchhiker's Guide? The dolphins leave this message as they leave Earth: "So long, and thanks for all the fish." Besides the mice the dolphins are the most intelligent species on the planet.
mkl 6y ago
There are some surprising-seeming statements one can make about kea. They are alpine parrots. They are omnivorous parrots. They like to destructively investigate things, anything they can, hiking gear, ski clothing, roofs, cars, helicopters, boats, kayaks, etc.*; if they can take something apart or pull something off, they will. We're kind of lucky they're alpine parrots, and stay away from the cities. * https://www.keaconservation.co.nz/support-kea/kea-proofing/ https://www.keaconservation.co.nz/support-kea/kea-proofing/ Any rubber part like wiper blades or window seals is fun to tear apart, as is accessible wiring. Car rental companies have warnings like this: "Please do not leave any of our convertible hire vehicles unattended in the Arthurs Pass National Park area. Local birds called Keas will likely damage the soft top of the vehicle and this damage will not be covered by your rental insurance." https://www.touchdowncarrental.co.nz/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.touchdowncarrental.co.nz/frequently-asked-questi... There are more-surprising statements about kakapo, relatives of kea, but not their closest. They are nocturnal parrots. They are flightless parrots. They got down to just 51 individuals (now over 200). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo

fiftyacorn 6y ago

I watched a program about how under threat keas are from non native predators like weasel's. Hope NZ gets on top of this

mkl 6y ago
Stoats more than weasels (related mustelids though). NZ has no native land mammals (just some small bats and sea mammals like seals and dolphins), so almost any mammal here is an introduced pest, and our native birds have suffered massively, given they didn't evolve for this kind of threat. There are many articles about the goals and process of getting rid of the pests. E.g. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48702762 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48702762, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/22/big-kill https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/22/big-kill I suspect our willingness to quickly go all-in on Covid elimination owes something to our familiarity with this other kind of biological threat elimination (a much bigger, longer process). Historically though, the biggest threat to kea in much of the 19th and 20th centuries was people. Some kea peck into sheep's backs, and there was a bounty on them for many years (grrr). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  Weasels are just as bad for egg raiding and explosive population growth after a beech mast rodent plague, but not as lethal for the adult birds.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Reventlov 6y ago

I learned about that just yesterday, watching « Chris Packham's Animal Einsteins » ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000slks https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000slks ) which might be OP source too :)

giorgiop 6y ago
Same here! So I went and search for the science source

petargyurov 6y ago

In case any camera trap folk are here, I'm currently volunteering with the NZ Department of Conservation to build an AI-assisted image sorting tool that speeds up the weeding out of empty images. https://github.com/petargyurov/megadetector-gui https://github.com/petargyurov/megadetector-gui This is currently used to assist the conservation efforts of various endemic species such as the kakapo, kea and takahe. (The ML model used is not limited to just these species!)

stargazer-3 6y ago
I was playing around with MegaDetector and it's wonderful. Works surprisingly well, although it does have a tendency to classify tree stumps as animals. Wish it would come with some kind of sequence aware background removal feature.
- petargyurov 6y ago
  The authors are currently working on the next iteration of the model which will hopefully come with a few improvements. AFAIK, they are keen on getting their hands on data that proved difficult for the model -- I suggest you get in touch with them if you think you could help!
  - stargazer-3 6y ago
    Good suggestion, but the data is semi-private and I have no ownership of it. May be worth a shot though, thanks!
mkingston 6y ago
This is great. Speaking as a Kiwi, err, "conservation enthusiast": thank you for your work. May I ask: I see you're based in London and I'm curious what motivated you to work on this?
- petargyurov 6y ago
  Thanks :) I had been looking to enter the conservation space and at the time I had plans to travel to NZ for tourism purposes. The two ideas kind of merged, and knowing that NZ has lots of cool species I figured I'd check out their conservation department. I sent out an email asking them if they need any help with anything and that's one of the things they were keen to have.

da39a3ee 6y ago

Where can I read more about the colored rectangle plot type used in fig. 1 to illustrate proportions?

giorgiop 6y ago
I don't think it's a standard plot. It's a cartoon representation of the actual jars containing coloured rectangles that were shown to the birds.

kwhitefoot 6y ago

The inference that I draw from reading the comments is that the world definitely needs more keas!