4 ms·

So here I am talking about someone dismissing what someone says by calling them privileged and boom, one of them shows up! What did this contribute to the conv

by Fogest 6y ago

So here I am talking about someone dismissing what someone says by calling them privileged and boom, one of them shows up! What did this contribute to the conversation? Good job you got your jab in calling me privileged in a conversation where I am talking about how stupid of a response that is that people will say.

KozmoNau7 6y ago
Racism is a systemic issue, not an individual issue. The simple fact that you react this strongly to being even slightly corrected, shows clearly that you've been on the good end of "different rules for me than for thee" for so long that you can't even see the injustice it causes for those on the bad end. People disagreeing with you online is not an injustice, it's just reality. When you go from being coddled to being treated like everyone else, even by those "beneath you", I understand that can be upsetting. However this is simply a correction of systemic injustices.
- Fogest 6y ago
  You didn't correct me on anything. You called me privileged based on a weird assumption you somehow drew from what I've said. Regardless of what my current status may be or what you think it may be it's not very relevant. Because that would ignore the rest of my life which you also have zero idea about. You're again making assumption. You don't know if I've had an easy life or a really hard life. You don't know anything but act like you know something about me and are using that to try and belittle me. Anyway this is clearly going nowhere as all you have done is repeat the same insult twice and provide zero constructive conversation or rebuttals to what I've said. You can throw around buzzwords and the big ol P word (privilege) but until you actually respond to what I said I'm wasting my time here. Please do not reply to me anymore. I'm not interested in hearing insults anymore. Do keep in mind it violates the rules here. Do not assume what my life has been life. Do not assume what my privilege is. And do not reply to me anymore. You are incredibly rude and unproductive. You are a perfect example of what I am talking about. You throw around buzzwords, provide zero facts/evidence/research and then throw down an insult. FYI:calling someone privileged, making assumptions, and being a jerk doesn't fix systematic racism.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    I fully understand that having the metaphorical blinders taken off can be quite upsetting. However the plain explanation is that a large number of us here on HN have grown up in the most prosperous nations in the history of the world, many of us have had great privileges in the availability of education and no systemic bias against us for any inborn trait. The greatest privilege of all being the ignorance of our own advantages and the politics that permeate every bit of human society. It is an experience most parents try to grant their children, a shielding from the big bad facts of the world, at least until they can begin to understand it. For a lot of people, that state is able to persist into adulthood, because they can avoid facing the injustices or ignore them because they have not had to face them themselves. Unfortunately we do have a tendency to dismiss the great sufferings of others by referring to minor injustices caused to us. Introspection and reflection is the key, not self-loathing.
    - ptr2voidStar 6y ago
      Very well said!
- ttt0 6y ago
  Jesus Christ, stop downvoting and flagging these comments. As much as I disagree with the comment, it correctly explains what the disagreement is, which is that we have different definitions of racism. According to this brave new definition of racism, KKK is not inherently racist, because it's a systemic issue, not an individual issue.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    The KKK were part of the system, and the system in many states supported them, either tacitly or even openly in some cases. Members of the KKK rose to the highest positions in local and federal politics and influenced police and lawmaking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United... The rise of the different incarnations of the Klan can be directly tied to politics of segregation, Jim Crow laws and other factors that in some form continue to hobble black Americans in particular, to this day. It is a systemic problem, perpetuated by a system that needs an underclass of disposable labor to oppress.
    - ttt0 6y ago
      But are not now. There are groups with similar messages that never had any power. BLM also have supporters in the highest positions and also influenced police and lawmaking, some places actually did defunded their police force. My point still stands. According to that definition, in the alternate universe KKK or NSDAP would not be considered racist, if they didn't have the majority of support.
      - KozmoNau7 6y ago
        Saying that racism in the US is a systemic issue does not imply that individual racism does not exist. One is the basis of the other, as people with racist views implement racist laws and systems, which in turn embolden more people. The KKK didn't come out of nowhere, they came out of a deeply racist society and system. Similarly the NSDAP didn't come out of nowhere, they came out of a racist (deeply anti-semitic) society and system, which they leveraged along with severely wounded German national pride and massive international sanctions after WWI, in order to rise to power. Systemic and individual racism go hand in hand, but you cannot fight racism one individual at a time, there simply aren't enough hours in a day. You have to attack the underlying structures and systems that perpetuate racism. Fighting against the thin blue line, and defunding the police in the US is one way to fight that fight, because of how selective policing is based on race and social standing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HehnDHNoItk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HehnDHNoItk
disease 6y ago
How is calling someone privileged considered a "jab"?

by Fogest 6y ago

KozmoNau7 6y ago

Racism is a systemic issue, not an individual issue. The simple fact that you react this strongly to being even slightly corrected, shows clearly that you've been on the good end of "different rules for me than for thee" for so long that you can't even see the injustice it causes for those on the bad end. People disagreeing with you online is not an injustice, it's just reality. When you go from being coddled to being treated like everyone else, even by those "beneath you", I understand that can be upsetting. However this is simply a correction of systemic injustices.

Fogest 6y ago
You didn't correct me on anything. You called me privileged based on a weird assumption you somehow drew from what I've said. Regardless of what my current status may be or what you think it may be it's not very relevant. Because that would ignore the rest of my life which you also have zero idea about. You're again making assumption. You don't know if I've had an easy life or a really hard life. You don't know anything but act like you know something about me and are using that to try and belittle me. Anyway this is clearly going nowhere as all you have done is repeat the same insult twice and provide zero constructive conversation or rebuttals to what I've said. You can throw around buzzwords and the big ol P word (privilege) but until you actually respond to what I said I'm wasting my time here. Please do not reply to me anymore. I'm not interested in hearing insults anymore. Do keep in mind it violates the rules here. Do not assume what my life has been life. Do not assume what my privilege is. And do not reply to me anymore. You are incredibly rude and unproductive. You are a perfect example of what I am talking about. You throw around buzzwords, provide zero facts/evidence/research and then throw down an insult. FYI:calling someone privileged, making assumptions, and being a jerk doesn't fix systematic racism.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  I fully understand that having the metaphorical blinders taken off can be quite upsetting. However the plain explanation is that a large number of us here on HN have grown up in the most prosperous nations in the history of the world, many of us have had great privileges in the availability of education and no systemic bias against us for any inborn trait. The greatest privilege of all being the ignorance of our own advantages and the politics that permeate every bit of human society. It is an experience most parents try to grant their children, a shielding from the big bad facts of the world, at least until they can begin to understand it. For a lot of people, that state is able to persist into adulthood, because they can avoid facing the injustices or ignore them because they have not had to face them themselves. Unfortunately we do have a tendency to dismiss the great sufferings of others by referring to minor injustices caused to us. Introspection and reflection is the key, not self-loathing.
  - ptr2voidStar 6y ago
    Very well said!
ttt0 6y ago
Jesus Christ, stop downvoting and flagging these comments. As much as I disagree with the comment, it correctly explains what the disagreement is, which is that we have different definitions of racism. According to this brave new definition of racism, KKK is not inherently racist, because it's a systemic issue, not an individual issue.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  The KKK were part of the system, and the system in many states supported them, either tacitly or even openly in some cases. Members of the KKK rose to the highest positions in local and federal politics and influenced police and lawmaking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United... The rise of the different incarnations of the Klan can be directly tied to politics of segregation, Jim Crow laws and other factors that in some form continue to hobble black Americans in particular, to this day. It is a systemic problem, perpetuated by a system that needs an underclass of disposable labor to oppress.
  - ttt0 6y ago
    But are not now. There are groups with similar messages that never had any power. BLM also have supporters in the highest positions and also influenced police and lawmaking, some places actually did defunded their police force. My point still stands. According to that definition, in the alternate universe KKK or NSDAP would not be considered racist, if they didn't have the majority of support.
    - KozmoNau7 6y ago
      Saying that racism in the US is a systemic issue does not imply that individual racism does not exist. One is the basis of the other, as people with racist views implement racist laws and systems, which in turn embolden more people. The KKK didn't come out of nowhere, they came out of a deeply racist society and system. Similarly the NSDAP didn't come out of nowhere, they came out of a racist (deeply anti-semitic) society and system, which they leveraged along with severely wounded German national pride and massive international sanctions after WWI, in order to rise to power. Systemic and individual racism go hand in hand, but you cannot fight racism one individual at a time, there simply aren't enough hours in a day. You have to attack the underlying structures and systems that perpetuate racism. Fighting against the thin blue line, and defunding the police in the US is one way to fight that fight, because of how selective policing is based on race and social standing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HehnDHNoItk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HehnDHNoItk

disease 6y ago

How is calling someone privileged considered a "jab"?