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Excellent comment that will likely get downvoted into the oblivion here. Somehow nuclear waste is a huge problem, but waste from silicon production and decomis

Excellent comment that will likely get downvoted into the oblivion here. Somehow nuclear waste is a huge problem, but waste from silicon production and decomissioning of solar panels isn't waste. Roof-solar is probably okay, but replacing baseload with batteries is so far-fetched, I'll believe it when i see it. Windmills impact microclimate as well, kill off birds by millions - everyone ignores that. Why is it ok for windmills to destroy climate and life? Since when that became the preferred way to destroy ecosystems?

jacobolus 6y ago
> Windmills impact microclimate as well, kill off birds by millions Domestic cats kill billions of birds every year.
- inter_netuser 6y ago
  Indeed, pet ownership is form of animal abuse.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  Domestic cats kill sparrows. Windmills kill large endangered birds of prey like eagles.
  - jacobolus 6y ago
    The point rather is: there are a ton of things that we build or do which kill birds: we clear habitat, eliminate food sources, dump pesticides and other toxic materials into the environment, build buildings and power lines, drive fast vehicles all over, keep predators as pets, etc. I'm sure many birds are killed by wind turbines (estimates I can find in a quick search indicate 100–300k per year), and by all means we should try to site wind farms away from migration routes and take whatever steps we can to make the turbines themselves safer for birds, and possibly even retrofit or decommission wind farms in sites which turn out to be especially deadly. However, it is not reasonable to look at this problem in isolation. If wind farms can drive coal power out of business faster, on net that is saving a huge number of birds and other wildlife. Ultimately global climate change is going to lead to mass extinction if our current trajectory is not altered very quickly. Wind power is one way to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
runarberg 6y ago
Solar cells can be recycled, and windmills killing birds is minuscule next to the rate introduced species do. These arguments are made in bad faith, you could spin nuclear in the exact same direction to make it look equally unsustainable. This is not to say we shouldn’t strive for sustainability (we should), it is to say that discounting renewables on grounds of non-sustainability is illogical, or done in bad faith.

jacobolus 6y ago

> Windmills impact microclimate as well, kill off birds by millions Domestic cats kill billions of birds every year.

inter_netuser 6y ago
Indeed, pet ownership is form of animal abuse.
macspoofing 6y ago
Domestic cats kill sparrows. Windmills kill large endangered birds of prey like eagles.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  The point rather is: there are a ton of things that we build or do which kill birds: we clear habitat, eliminate food sources, dump pesticides and other toxic materials into the environment, build buildings and power lines, drive fast vehicles all over, keep predators as pets, etc. I'm sure many birds are killed by wind turbines (estimates I can find in a quick search indicate 100–300k per year), and by all means we should try to site wind farms away from migration routes and take whatever steps we can to make the turbines themselves safer for birds, and possibly even retrofit or decommission wind farms in sites which turn out to be especially deadly. However, it is not reasonable to look at this problem in isolation. If wind farms can drive coal power out of business faster, on net that is saving a huge number of birds and other wildlife. Ultimately global climate change is going to lead to mass extinction if our current trajectory is not altered very quickly. Wind power is one way to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

runarberg 6y ago

Solar cells can be recycled, and windmills killing birds is minuscule next to the rate introduced species do. These arguments are made in bad faith, you could spin nuclear in the exact same direction to make it look equally unsustainable. This is not to say we shouldn’t strive for sustainability (we should), it is to say that discounting renewables on grounds of non-sustainability is illogical, or done in bad faith.