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I'm dead serious. Your comment seeks to discredit my position, but I'm speaking my truth to what I see. Sorry, but the bitcoin fans get condescending, acting l

I'm dead serious. Your comment seeks to discredit my position, but I'm speaking my truth to what I see. Sorry, but the bitcoin fans get condescending, acting like they can save us from those evil banks. Not a chance. Technology that has improved society does absolutely exist though, like the world wide web, which has proven potential and has revolutionized the way we do business and commerce. Cryptocurrency on the other hand is just an ancap wet dream. You are free to disagree with me, but bitcoin has been around for 12 years now and, yet, I see no killer application that doesn't involve some kind of grift. In the same period of 12 years, from the start of the WWW to around the early 2000s, so much innovation happened by comparison.

imwillofficial 6y ago
So the guy who uses the racist phrase “white savior complex” non ironically, who only admits technology is useful after it has undeniable global appeal, is supposed to be some barometer if a technology will be world changing? Frankly, you can’t possibly know until the dice stop rolling. Just like the internet, or the barcode (look up the guy who invented it, his story is cool.) Fact is it’s too early to tell what impact Bitcoin will have on history. Your self righteousness prognosticating just shows your ignorance of history, humility, and sound reasoning. According to you something is only useful if it has already demonstrated its use, like the web. Well duh, of course the web is useful. You’re not exactly Nostradamus with that one. Will Bitcoin be useful? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Edit: s/p
- SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
  Eh, can you tell me what the killer app is supposed to be? I'd like to know. Because in 12 freaking years, there has to have been something better than "lets kill our planet as quickly as possible while early adopters get rich".
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    You got me there. I see a lot of cool possibilities, neat ideas, but no killer app. It’s all too complicated. But how long was that the case for the web? Decades? Even circa 2009 when I last did public facing IT work, many people were still talking to their mice. I’m not saying Bitcoin will be any more than a interesting diversion, but much like the web, it is far far too early to tell if it will just be a TempleOS style wet dream, or something that utterly shifts the landscape of the how we live our lives. (I’m also fascinated with how COVID is reshaping our planet.) When was the last time something changed how all of humanity lives their lives, globally, in a short period, before COVID? The internet? Electricity? What were some other big ticket changes you guys can think of?
  - sumgame 6y ago
    So to talk about the killer app we’ve got to differentiate the technology from the first use case, which is digital gold for now Ethereum goal was to allow people to build different types of dApps by opening up the number of op codes on the virtual machine - this allowed people not only to build bitcoin on ethereum but also other types of apps - like Uniswap (Exchange), Compound (Lending) and dydx (derivatives). These are just a few. There’s a whole other world of NFT’s that is also bubbling up now. Aragon is building a DAO creator and launcher where you can build and run organisations in a digital jurisdiction. Now as the World Wide Web decentralised the power to distribute information via a protocol, Blockchain’s can allow that for anything that requires trust - such as finance Though the biggest limiting factor is still scalability of Blockchain’s but the Ethereum team and a bunch of other teams are solving that by being at the breeding edge of mechanism design. Ethereum realised Blockchain’s aren’t scalable and are bad for the climate long long ago - and already have plans to move away from PoW (energy intensive) to PoS (not energy intensive) P.S - I got into bitcoin early because believe it was a hedge to inflation - realised it isn’t really a value add to society and have been dabbling with ethereum projects since 2016 I get the hate HN has for bitcoin - but deflationary assets are a use case especially when central banks believe they can pump infinite money. Nobody knows where this will end but your best bet is a deflationary asset I love tech and finance - I believe the next decade we’ll see finance being disrupted by these protocols as ethereum moves to PoS
    - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
      sumgame, I appreciate this long and detailed response, as well as your insights. That said, here's why I think cryptocurrencies (specifically the underlying blockchain concept) are mostly redundant to us. The answer might surprise you, because it's less about technology and more about human nature and social engineering. For something like blockchains adding "trust" to finance, I have one big problem with this. Humans on both ends of the transaction still need to conduct their business honestly for this to work. Sure, the so-called smart contracts system, like the one found with Ethereum, allows you to write an immutable record to the blockchain that dictates whatever terms and commit it to what is essentially a distributed append-only database. Additionally, if you make a mistake on a smart contract, d'oh! You basically can't change an immutable record. You'd have to append over it with a fresh one, which, depending on how energy intensive this blockchain application is, contributes to unneeded waste. Here's where my personal issue is at with all this. Say you decide to take receipt of a delivery from Timbuktu for some fine vases. You receive the items from said vendor and, despite the entry clearly describing what you were supposed to get, you in fact get scammed with a delivery full of sand. So, what do you intend to do? The ledger can be as specific about a transaction as you want, but this won't stop dishonest people from being dishonest. So then you can settle it in a court system, bring the parties to task, and... oh wait. Why did we not just simply use a regular database and time tested ERP systems that have done the job for ages? I guess what I'm really getting at here is that blockchain isn't some magic bullet that will guarantee specific outcomes in commerce, and in fact, feels like a different way to do the exact same thing we've done forever, but we need to cater to some kind of NIH syndrome. Back to cryptocurrencies, why do we need so many different tokens out there in existence? Aren't they all trying to generally accomplish similar tasks? That also adds a ton of confusion and consternation, with everyone claiming how their particular cryptocurrency project is truly the best and why you need to use it over INSERT PROJECT HERE. Fintech is an interesting space to watch, but I see way more projects with less than pure intentions trying to see if they can make out like a bandit down the line. The world wide web, by comparison, is (and by some sources... was) a truly democratic medium. I'm not sure the same thing applies with cryptocurrencies and blockchain, which all feel like solutions in search of a problem (or projects in search of money from FOMO-riddled folks with nothing better to do). EDIT: To your point about Bitcoin being digital gold. Yeah... it's nice sounding in theory, but at least with real physical gold, it can survive till the heat death of the universe and doesn't require the constant consumption of resources to maintain it (which I find egregious and unconscionable), as well as not requiring an active internet connection. I'm not a goldbug either, but I can at least concede to gold having a handful of intrinsic properties which lends to it being a hedge in its own right, agreed on over thousands of years in human history.
imwillofficial 6y ago
Edit: I’m a horrendous speller. Damn home schooling. Edit2: mobile debating is hard, on both sides of the podium.
- SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
  I've only been adding content. I haven't changed any of my positions. Working on a mobile it's a bit hard when you return carriage and sometimes I post anyway.
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  ^ I feel ya there. I’m running into the same thing
- SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
  Btw read your new comment below mine. Thank you for being a good sport about all this. Please note, I will never personally attack someone I disagree with. I just get a bit heated sometimes. :)
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    You’re good! And I hope I did not offend. You seem like a kind and thoughtful person. Talking to you has been a lesson in going into a conversation without assumption. Thank you for that. I can be like a bull in a China shop sometimes. Well meaning... but I sure hope you didn’t have any dishes you liked
    - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
      Dude you're totally fine. No offense taken. I'm actually of the opinion that I need to be offended once in awhile. It makes me think.
- SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
  P.S I was also homeschooled myself. high fives
spiralx 6y ago
> Cryptocurrency on the other hand is just an ancap wet dream. My exact thought upon reading the Slashdot article announcing the release of v0.3 of this thing called Bitcoin back in 2010. The last decade has only reinforced that view...
- SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
  It scares me how much of a cult following Bitcoin specifically has. I just saw a post go up on /r/bitcoin about a butter who sold her house for freaking Bitcoin. I'd hate to be her when (not if) this goes tits up.
  - spiralx 6y ago
    Madness. I would hope that it's still a troll but it's not like we haven't seen people do the same thing for all kinds of get rich quick schemes past and present.
    - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
      Exactly. This is basically digital Amway haha.

imwillofficial 6y ago

So the guy who uses the racist phrase “white savior complex” non ironically, who only admits technology is useful after it has undeniable global appeal, is supposed to be some barometer if a technology will be world changing? Frankly, you can’t possibly know until the dice stop rolling. Just like the internet, or the barcode (look up the guy who invented it, his story is cool.) Fact is it’s too early to tell what impact Bitcoin will have on history. Your self righteousness prognosticating just shows your ignorance of history, humility, and sound reasoning. According to you something is only useful if it has already demonstrated its use, like the web. Well duh, of course the web is useful. You’re not exactly Nostradamus with that one. Will Bitcoin be useful? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. Edit: s/p

SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
Eh, can you tell me what the killer app is supposed to be? I'd like to know. Because in 12 freaking years, there has to have been something better than "lets kill our planet as quickly as possible while early adopters get rich".
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  You got me there. I see a lot of cool possibilities, neat ideas, but no killer app. It’s all too complicated. But how long was that the case for the web? Decades? Even circa 2009 when I last did public facing IT work, many people were still talking to their mice. I’m not saying Bitcoin will be any more than a interesting diversion, but much like the web, it is far far too early to tell if it will just be a TempleOS style wet dream, or something that utterly shifts the landscape of the how we live our lives. (I’m also fascinated with how COVID is reshaping our planet.) When was the last time something changed how all of humanity lives their lives, globally, in a short period, before COVID? The internet? Electricity? What were some other big ticket changes you guys can think of?
- sumgame 6y ago
  So to talk about the killer app we’ve got to differentiate the technology from the first use case, which is digital gold for now Ethereum goal was to allow people to build different types of dApps by opening up the number of op codes on the virtual machine - this allowed people not only to build bitcoin on ethereum but also other types of apps - like Uniswap (Exchange), Compound (Lending) and dydx (derivatives). These are just a few. There’s a whole other world of NFT’s that is also bubbling up now. Aragon is building a DAO creator and launcher where you can build and run organisations in a digital jurisdiction. Now as the World Wide Web decentralised the power to distribute information via a protocol, Blockchain’s can allow that for anything that requires trust - such as finance Though the biggest limiting factor is still scalability of Blockchain’s but the Ethereum team and a bunch of other teams are solving that by being at the breeding edge of mechanism design. Ethereum realised Blockchain’s aren’t scalable and are bad for the climate long long ago - and already have plans to move away from PoW (energy intensive) to PoS (not energy intensive) P.S - I got into bitcoin early because believe it was a hedge to inflation - realised it isn’t really a value add to society and have been dabbling with ethereum projects since 2016 I get the hate HN has for bitcoin - but deflationary assets are a use case especially when central banks believe they can pump infinite money. Nobody knows where this will end but your best bet is a deflationary asset I love tech and finance - I believe the next decade we’ll see finance being disrupted by these protocols as ethereum moves to PoS
  - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
    sumgame, I appreciate this long and detailed response, as well as your insights. That said, here's why I think cryptocurrencies (specifically the underlying blockchain concept) are mostly redundant to us. The answer might surprise you, because it's less about technology and more about human nature and social engineering. For something like blockchains adding "trust" to finance, I have one big problem with this. Humans on both ends of the transaction still need to conduct their business honestly for this to work. Sure, the so-called smart contracts system, like the one found with Ethereum, allows you to write an immutable record to the blockchain that dictates whatever terms and commit it to what is essentially a distributed append-only database. Additionally, if you make a mistake on a smart contract, d'oh! You basically can't change an immutable record. You'd have to append over it with a fresh one, which, depending on how energy intensive this blockchain application is, contributes to unneeded waste. Here's where my personal issue is at with all this. Say you decide to take receipt of a delivery from Timbuktu for some fine vases. You receive the items from said vendor and, despite the entry clearly describing what you were supposed to get, you in fact get scammed with a delivery full of sand. So, what do you intend to do? The ledger can be as specific about a transaction as you want, but this won't stop dishonest people from being dishonest. So then you can settle it in a court system, bring the parties to task, and... oh wait. Why did we not just simply use a regular database and time tested ERP systems that have done the job for ages? I guess what I'm really getting at here is that blockchain isn't some magic bullet that will guarantee specific outcomes in commerce, and in fact, feels like a different way to do the exact same thing we've done forever, but we need to cater to some kind of NIH syndrome. Back to cryptocurrencies, why do we need so many different tokens out there in existence? Aren't they all trying to generally accomplish similar tasks? That also adds a ton of confusion and consternation, with everyone claiming how their particular cryptocurrency project is truly the best and why you need to use it over INSERT PROJECT HERE. Fintech is an interesting space to watch, but I see way more projects with less than pure intentions trying to see if they can make out like a bandit down the line. The world wide web, by comparison, is (and by some sources... was) a truly democratic medium. I'm not sure the same thing applies with cryptocurrencies and blockchain, which all feel like solutions in search of a problem (or projects in search of money from FOMO-riddled folks with nothing better to do). EDIT: To your point about Bitcoin being digital gold. Yeah... it's nice sounding in theory, but at least with real physical gold, it can survive till the heat death of the universe and doesn't require the constant consumption of resources to maintain it (which I find egregious and unconscionable), as well as not requiring an active internet connection. I'm not a goldbug either, but I can at least concede to gold having a handful of intrinsic properties which lends to it being a hedge in its own right, agreed on over thousands of years in human history.

imwillofficial 6y ago

Edit: I’m a horrendous speller. Damn home schooling. Edit2: mobile debating is hard, on both sides of the podium.

SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
I've only been adding content. I haven't changed any of my positions. Working on a mobile it's a bit hard when you return carriage and sometimes I post anyway.
imwillofficial 6y ago
^ I feel ya there. I’m running into the same thing
SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
Btw read your new comment below mine. Thank you for being a good sport about all this. Please note, I will never personally attack someone I disagree with. I just get a bit heated sometimes. :)
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  You’re good! And I hope I did not offend. You seem like a kind and thoughtful person. Talking to you has been a lesson in going into a conversation without assumption. Thank you for that. I can be like a bull in a China shop sometimes. Well meaning... but I sure hope you didn’t have any dishes you liked
  - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
    Dude you're totally fine. No offense taken. I'm actually of the opinion that I need to be offended once in awhile. It makes me think.
SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
P.S I was also homeschooled myself. high fives

spiralx 6y ago

> Cryptocurrency on the other hand is just an ancap wet dream. My exact thought upon reading the Slashdot article announcing the release of v0.3 of this thing called Bitcoin back in 2010. The last decade has only reinforced that view...

SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
It scares me how much of a cult following Bitcoin specifically has. I just saw a post go up on /r/bitcoin about a butter who sold her house for freaking Bitcoin. I'd hate to be her when (not if) this goes tits up.
- spiralx 6y ago
  Madness. I would hope that it's still a troll but it's not like we haven't seen people do the same thing for all kinds of get rich quick schemes past and present.
  - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
    Exactly. This is basically digital Amway haha.