6 ms·

It's not that it is a personal attack, it's more that I expect more talk about the actual architecture and infrastructure behind the topic versus making it a po

by Fogest 6y ago

It's not that it is a personal attack, it's more that I expect more talk about the actual architecture and infrastructure behind the topic versus making it a political topic. I didn't notice them providing any statistics in regards to the racial issues. All I noticed was anecdotal evidence and an incredibly biased account of a single police encounter that happened back in 2014. They are using one guys story and a single incident involving police in order to talk about the negatives it had on other races. These are bold claims with little backing given. This is why I don't like when podcasts like this try and tackle these issues. Because they end up being incredibly biased and one-sided. They didn't provide the whole story on the police incident, nor did they provide any other points of views or statistic on the racial issues they mentioned. I like hearing well-researched and articulated pieces about racial inequality. What I don't like is hearing a biased opinion/anecdote filled podcast episode about it. It seems every Podcast I listen to now always has some weird need to make it political. This never used to be the case even just a couple years ago. Now we even see sporting programs taking sides in politics and it just seems so unnecessary. I often spend too much time deep into the weeds on these kinds of topics much like I am now. Sometimes I just want to consume some media without politics being involved. However it rarely seems like I am able to anymore. Even TV shows I watch now are starting to feel ruined and lack the good script writing they used to in favour of shoehorning whatever current PC thing is trending.

KozmoNau7 6y ago
Everything is politics, and the fact that so many of us have managed to stay unaware and insulated from that for so long, is one of the clearest indicators of privilege there is.
- Fogest 6y ago
  So here I am talking about someone dismissing what someone says by calling them privileged and boom, one of them shows up! What did this contribute to the conversation? Good job you got your jab in calling me privileged in a conversation where I am talking about how stupid of a response that is that people will say.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    Racism is a systemic issue, not an individual issue. The simple fact that you react this strongly to being even slightly corrected, shows clearly that you've been on the good end of "different rules for me than for thee" for so long that you can't even see the injustice it causes for those on the bad end. People disagreeing with you online is not an injustice, it's just reality. When you go from being coddled to being treated like everyone else, even by those "beneath you", I understand that can be upsetting. However this is simply a correction of systemic injustices.
    - Fogest 6y ago
      You didn't correct me on anything. You called me privileged based on a weird assumption you somehow drew from what I've said. Regardless of what my current status may be or what you think it may be it's not very relevant. Because that would ignore the rest of my life which you also have zero idea about. You're again making assumption. You don't know if I've had an easy life or a really hard life. You don't know anything but act like you know something about me and are using that to try and belittle me. Anyway this is clearly going nowhere as all you have done is repeat the same insult twice and provide zero constructive conversation or rebuttals to what I've said. You can throw around buzzwords and the big ol P word (privilege) but until you actually respond to what I said I'm wasting my time here. Please do not reply to me anymore. I'm not interested in hearing insults anymore. Do keep in mind it violates the rules here. Do not assume what my life has been life. Do not assume what my privilege is. And do not reply to me anymore. You are incredibly rude and unproductive. You are a perfect example of what I am talking about. You throw around buzzwords, provide zero facts/evidence/research and then throw down an insult. FYI:calling someone privileged, making assumptions, and being a jerk doesn't fix systematic racism.
      - KozmoNau7 6y ago
        I fully understand that having the metaphorical blinders taken off can be quite upsetting. However the plain explanation is that a large number of us here on HN have grown up in the most prosperous nations in the history of the world, many of us have had great privileges in the availability of education and no systemic bias against us for any inborn trait. The greatest privilege of all being the ignorance of our own advantages and the politics that permeate every bit of human society. It is an experience most parents try to grant their children, a shielding from the big bad facts of the world, at least until they can begin to understand it. For a lot of people, that state is able to persist into adulthood, because they can avoid facing the injustices or ignore them because they have not had to face them themselves. Unfortunately we do have a tendency to dismiss the great sufferings of others by referring to minor injustices caused to us. Introspection and reflection is the key, not self-loathing.
- psyc 6y ago
  This is the most standard of social justice talking points. I don’t like it at all. But putting that aside, how would I go about determining whether it’s true? Take all y’all’s word for it? Listen and believe? Read exclusively intersectional literature until it takes over my thought processes? What is the truth value of this stance? If I say viewing everything as political is a motivated choice, you say it could only be so for the privileged. And so I’m stuck in my little fishbowl, and you’re over there in whatever your situation is, and never the twain shall meet.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    Luckily reality doesn't care whether you like it or not, to put it bluntly :-) All you really have to do is to listen to people when they describe the struggles they go through, the injustices they face and the roadblocks in their path. It quickly becomes obvious that a lot of people[1] really are in disadvantaged positions, some even from birth, while others see mild corrections to their ingrained behavior and reminders of how privileged they are, as massive infractions on their personal freedoms. Speaking truth to power by dumping on the over-privileged people of the world is catharsis and a necessary healing step. [1] In fact the majority of people on Earth.
    - psyc 6y ago
      If only you knew. Literally all I do in my old age is listen to everybody and try to work out where they’re coming from. I thought long and hard about my rebuttal, and I might have almost had a pretty good one. But instead I’ll just say thanks for giving me occasion to think a lot.
simiones 6y ago
> I expect more talk about the actual architecture and infrastructure behind the topic versus making it a political topic. The problem with this line of thinking is that everything is political. If they had chosen not to address the possible racial implications, other people who felt strongly about those may have felt that the negative social impact that they perceive was being deliberately ignored, and they would have been right to the same extent that you are. It is similar to the choice of making or not making global warming a game mechanic in the Civilization series of games: either option will be seen as "political" by some people and "apolitical" by others. It's a distinction without a difference. Not saying something is not inherently less political than talking about it. Note: I have no idea or even opinion about the actual political implications of skyways. Perhaps they are a real problem, perhaps they are a fringe idea like opposition to the word "blacklist" (a word which existed in the English language since Prince John).

by Fogest 6y ago

KozmoNau7 6y ago

Everything is politics, and the fact that so many of us have managed to stay unaware and insulated from that for so long, is one of the clearest indicators of privilege there is.

Fogest 6y ago
So here I am talking about someone dismissing what someone says by calling them privileged and boom, one of them shows up! What did this contribute to the conversation? Good job you got your jab in calling me privileged in a conversation where I am talking about how stupid of a response that is that people will say.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  Racism is a systemic issue, not an individual issue. The simple fact that you react this strongly to being even slightly corrected, shows clearly that you've been on the good end of "different rules for me than for thee" for so long that you can't even see the injustice it causes for those on the bad end. People disagreeing with you online is not an injustice, it's just reality. When you go from being coddled to being treated like everyone else, even by those "beneath you", I understand that can be upsetting. However this is simply a correction of systemic injustices.
  - Fogest 6y ago
    You didn't correct me on anything. You called me privileged based on a weird assumption you somehow drew from what I've said. Regardless of what my current status may be or what you think it may be it's not very relevant. Because that would ignore the rest of my life which you also have zero idea about. You're again making assumption. You don't know if I've had an easy life or a really hard life. You don't know anything but act like you know something about me and are using that to try and belittle me. Anyway this is clearly going nowhere as all you have done is repeat the same insult twice and provide zero constructive conversation or rebuttals to what I've said. You can throw around buzzwords and the big ol P word (privilege) but until you actually respond to what I said I'm wasting my time here. Please do not reply to me anymore. I'm not interested in hearing insults anymore. Do keep in mind it violates the rules here. Do not assume what my life has been life. Do not assume what my privilege is. And do not reply to me anymore. You are incredibly rude and unproductive. You are a perfect example of what I am talking about. You throw around buzzwords, provide zero facts/evidence/research and then throw down an insult. FYI:calling someone privileged, making assumptions, and being a jerk doesn't fix systematic racism.
    - KozmoNau7 6y ago
      I fully understand that having the metaphorical blinders taken off can be quite upsetting. However the plain explanation is that a large number of us here on HN have grown up in the most prosperous nations in the history of the world, many of us have had great privileges in the availability of education and no systemic bias against us for any inborn trait. The greatest privilege of all being the ignorance of our own advantages and the politics that permeate every bit of human society. It is an experience most parents try to grant their children, a shielding from the big bad facts of the world, at least until they can begin to understand it. For a lot of people, that state is able to persist into adulthood, because they can avoid facing the injustices or ignore them because they have not had to face them themselves. Unfortunately we do have a tendency to dismiss the great sufferings of others by referring to minor injustices caused to us. Introspection and reflection is the key, not self-loathing.
psyc 6y ago
This is the most standard of social justice talking points. I don’t like it at all. But putting that aside, how would I go about determining whether it’s true? Take all y’all’s word for it? Listen and believe? Read exclusively intersectional literature until it takes over my thought processes? What is the truth value of this stance? If I say viewing everything as political is a motivated choice, you say it could only be so for the privileged. And so I’m stuck in my little fishbowl, and you’re over there in whatever your situation is, and never the twain shall meet.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  Luckily reality doesn't care whether you like it or not, to put it bluntly :-) All you really have to do is to listen to people when they describe the struggles they go through, the injustices they face and the roadblocks in their path. It quickly becomes obvious that a lot of people[1] really are in disadvantaged positions, some even from birth, while others see mild corrections to their ingrained behavior and reminders of how privileged they are, as massive infractions on their personal freedoms. Speaking truth to power by dumping on the over-privileged people of the world is catharsis and a necessary healing step. [1] In fact the majority of people on Earth.
  - psyc 6y ago
    If only you knew. Literally all I do in my old age is listen to everybody and try to work out where they’re coming from. I thought long and hard about my rebuttal, and I might have almost had a pretty good one. But instead I’ll just say thanks for giving me occasion to think a lot.

simiones 6y ago

> I expect more talk about the actual architecture and infrastructure behind the topic versus making it a political topic. The problem with this line of thinking is that everything is political. If they had chosen not to address the possible racial implications, other people who felt strongly about those may have felt that the negative social impact that they perceive was being deliberately ignored, and they would have been right to the same extent that you are. It is similar to the choice of making or not making global warming a game mechanic in the Civilization series of games: either option will be seen as "political" by some people and "apolitical" by others. It's a distinction without a difference. Not saying something is not inherently less political than talking about it. Note: I have no idea or even opinion about the actual political implications of skyways. Perhaps they are a real problem, perhaps they are a fringe idea like opposition to the word "blacklist" (a word which existed in the English language since Prince John).