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The sanctions on SMIC were imposed by the US which incentivized a stock piling and cut global supply. So it was US hobbling itself and not Chinas doing. Instea

The sanctions on SMIC were imposed by the US which incentivized a stock piling and cut global supply. So it was US hobbling itself and not Chinas doing. Instead of this ham fisted approach it needs systemic solutions. For eg - make college free. Make corporations subservient to state planning of strategic priorities. It’s clear that China has the upper hand as long as US is a bunch of warring corporations that think of the next quarter. US corporations will eventually force a retreat to protect their Chinese profits. China just needs to offer them some returns. As the largest market in the world they now can.

baybal2 6y ago
> The sanctions on SMIC were imposed by the US which incentivized a stock piling and cut global supply. No... SMIC was making a great deal of 200mm business, possibly the biggest 200mm foundry. A lot of those decades old automotive ICs were fabbed there for the proximity to assembly lines, and tarriff avoidance.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Of course, but if it can't develop finer lithographies, it might as well give up and declare bankruptcy right now.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > Of course, but if it can't develop finer lithographies, it might as well give up and declare bankruptcy right now. No, SMIC was in very good financial position. They work tax free, got a rather good niche of expensive old chips, and a status of the only first tier foundry in worlds biggest semiconductor market. 200mm is currently booked for years ahead, so they are not going anywhere for those years ahead at least. People on this forum know very little of how the economics for microchips work. I want people to learn up this industry to a level where they wouldn't embarrass themselves without at least having a glancing doubt about what they say first.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      SMIC works tax-free and enjoys massive government subsidy because the government is counting on them to progress to finer lithographies. If they give up on that goal, many of their government-given advantages disappear.
      - baybal2 6y ago
        Near the entirety of semiconductor industry in China works tax free. From fabless to chemical, and material companies, to actual fabs. Every few years they throw some new tax exemption programs effectively making them perpetual. I don't see why would the specifically single out SMIC for that.
roenxi 6y ago
> Make corporations subservient to state planning of strategic priorities. If the US makes it a battle of who has the better government, they will get crushed by the Chinese. Not even close. The Chinese government is noticeably more competent than the American one. The only hope America has is letting people do things without government planning. That is why big wealth generators like Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc, etc are all American companies rather than Chinese. Nobody in government saw any of that stuff coming. Pretty much everything China is doing to get ahead is illegal in the US for environmental or worklaw reasons. Copying the parts that keep China behind isn't going to help.
- thewarrior 6y ago
  Government doesn’t have to suck. Nor is good government and central planning incompatible with democracy or markets. The government sent people to the moon and invented the internet. America can win if it makes its government great again.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    You've listed evidence of 1 success every 100 years. That isn't the sort of track record to be talking about if the plan is to take on the Chinese. And the internet didn't achieve widespread success until the government turned it over to the free market where it became the most ultra-free-market environment we've seen this generation.

baybal2 6y ago

> The sanctions on SMIC were imposed by the US which incentivized a stock piling and cut global supply. No... SMIC was making a great deal of 200mm business, possibly the biggest 200mm foundry. A lot of those decades old automotive ICs were fabbed there for the proximity to assembly lines, and tarriff avoidance.

sudosysgen 6y ago
Of course, but if it can't develop finer lithographies, it might as well give up and declare bankruptcy right now.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > Of course, but if it can't develop finer lithographies, it might as well give up and declare bankruptcy right now. No, SMIC was in very good financial position. They work tax free, got a rather good niche of expensive old chips, and a status of the only first tier foundry in worlds biggest semiconductor market. 200mm is currently booked for years ahead, so they are not going anywhere for those years ahead at least. People on this forum know very little of how the economics for microchips work. I want people to learn up this industry to a level where they wouldn't embarrass themselves without at least having a glancing doubt about what they say first.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    SMIC works tax-free and enjoys massive government subsidy because the government is counting on them to progress to finer lithographies. If they give up on that goal, many of their government-given advantages disappear.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      Near the entirety of semiconductor industry in China works tax free. From fabless to chemical, and material companies, to actual fabs. Every few years they throw some new tax exemption programs effectively making them perpetual. I don't see why would the specifically single out SMIC for that.

roenxi 6y ago

> Make corporations subservient to state planning of strategic priorities. If the US makes it a battle of who has the better government, they will get crushed by the Chinese. Not even close. The Chinese government is noticeably more competent than the American one. The only hope America has is letting people do things without government planning. That is why big wealth generators like Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc, etc are all American companies rather than Chinese. Nobody in government saw any of that stuff coming. Pretty much everything China is doing to get ahead is illegal in the US for environmental or worklaw reasons. Copying the parts that keep China behind isn't going to help.

thewarrior 6y ago
Government doesn’t have to suck. Nor is good government and central planning incompatible with democracy or markets. The government sent people to the moon and invented the internet. America can win if it makes its government great again.
- roenxi 6y ago
  You've listed evidence of 1 success every 100 years. That isn't the sort of track record to be talking about if the plan is to take on the Chinese. And the internet didn't achieve widespread success until the government turned it over to the free market where it became the most ultra-free-market environment we've seen this generation.