4 ms·

I agree with you. I think the Chinese government is totalitarian and aggressive, and the standard of due process and human rights is very different of what we

I agree with you. I think the Chinese government is totalitarian and aggressive, and the standard of due process and human rights is very different of what we consider acceptable in the "west". I also wouldnt be surprised if things like widespread facial recognition and other types of intrusive vigilance is present (something very bad),I also would not be surprised if the area has received a large Han migration (something more gray, neutral). I also acknowledge that people that they may consider dangerous (number in the tens of thousands? are or have been detained for longer periods) and that the youth population receive education to become integrated to the Han majority. Having said that,I have seen 0 actual evidence of genocide, beyond very wild speculations. 0 bodies, mass graves, executions,1-million people in jail etc. If I see the evidence I of course will change my mind. On the other hand almost every notably speaker of the genocide have had an axis to grind against China. From the crazy newborn Christian Zenz, to the Uyghur woman who worked for the CIA and did a reddit AMA, to yes! people like Pompeo or Trump or even the mainstream western media.We are in the middle of a new cold-war. Uighurs are exempt of the 2-child policy reserved to the Han, and their population have increased in the region compared to the previous decades.China has also be receptive to receive inspection and FWIW the entire muslim block is with China.You could argue that they are being blackmailed, but some of them are rich enough to not depend now or in the future from China. Anyway, it is going to be interesting once the proposed French laws against Muslims extremism are in place to see if the same standard will be applied to the reporting. Interesting times these.

42_ 6y ago
The standard of evidence for a country with free press cannot and should not be compared to the standard of evidence for a country with no press freedom. China controls flow of information so tightly, that even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise.
- cambalache 6y ago
  Free press is a nebulous concept, especially considering that for all but the most naive or disingenuous person the mass media press is an indirect tool of the intelligence services of each country. > China controls flow of information so tightly, that even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise. You could say exactly the same about the military occupation of every country, or are we getting the whole truth in Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen or Iraq? For me this a case of simply, "Since I am American/European I will believe my press" Well, I am not Chinese, neither American or European so I dont have that automatic loyalty nor prejudice.
  - unityByFreedom 6y ago
    It isn't nebulous. In China you and your family disappear if you criticize the CCP, even if you do so while overseas. Elsewhere you may speak your mind without fear of being locked up or killed.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      > Elsewhere you may speak your mind without fear of being locked up or killed. Like Assange did? https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-jailed-imprisoned/ https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-ja... > This marks the fifth consecutive year that repressive governments have imprisoned at least 250 journalists. Lack of global leadership on democratic values – particularly from the United States, where President Donald Trump has inexhaustibly denigrated the press and cozied up to dictators such as Egyptian President Abdelfattah el-Sisi – has perpetuated the crisis. As authoritarians leveraged Trump’s “fake news” rhetoric to justify their actions – particularly in Egypt – the number of journalists jailed on “false news” charges steadily increased. This year, 34 journalists were jailed for “false news,” compared with 31 last year. > Within the United States, no journalists were jailed at the time of CPJ’s prison census, but an unprecedented 110 journalists were arrested or criminally charged in 2020 and around 300 were assaulted, the majority by law enforcement, according to the U.S. Press Freedom Tracker. At least 12 still face criminal charges, some of which carry jail terms. Observers told CPJ that the polarized political climate, militarized law enforcement, and vitriol toward the media combined during a wave of protests to eradicate norms that once afforded journalists police protection. But by all means keep believing in a black and white world.
      - unityByFreedom 6y ago
        CPJ, based in New York. Such an organization would never be allowed to exist in China. It is the likes of the CCP & Trump who would paint the world as black and white, i.e. you're either with me or against me. The rest of us acknowledge that press freedoms enable a spectrum of viewpoints.
        6y ago
- approxim8ion 6y ago
  >even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise. That's rather convenient. Wonder if any global powers with a vested interest could take advantage of this mindset...
  - 42_ 6y ago
    Yeah, its convenient, but even more convenient is the mindset of ignoring existing evidence and bending over backwards for the pleasure of profiting off cheap manufacturing.

42_ 6y ago

The standard of evidence for a country with free press cannot and should not be compared to the standard of evidence for a country with no press freedom. China controls flow of information so tightly, that even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise.

cambalache 6y ago
Free press is a nebulous concept, especially considering that for all but the most naive or disingenuous person the mass media press is an indirect tool of the intelligence services of each country. > China controls flow of information so tightly, that even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise. You could say exactly the same about the military occupation of every country, or are we getting the whole truth in Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen or Iraq? For me this a case of simply, "Since I am American/European I will believe my press" Well, I am not Chinese, neither American or European so I dont have that automatic loyalty nor prejudice.
- unityByFreedom 6y ago
  It isn't nebulous. In China you and your family disappear if you criticize the CCP, even if you do so while overseas. Elsewhere you may speak your mind without fear of being locked up or killed.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    > Elsewhere you may speak your mind without fear of being locked up or killed. Like Assange did? https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-jailed-imprisoned/ https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-ja... > This marks the fifth consecutive year that repressive governments have imprisoned at least 250 journalists. Lack of global leadership on democratic values – particularly from the United States, where President Donald Trump has inexhaustibly denigrated the press and cozied up to dictators such as Egyptian President Abdelfattah el-Sisi – has perpetuated the crisis. As authoritarians leveraged Trump’s “fake news” rhetoric to justify their actions – particularly in Egypt – the number of journalists jailed on “false news” charges steadily increased. This year, 34 journalists were jailed for “false news,” compared with 31 last year. > Within the United States, no journalists were jailed at the time of CPJ’s prison census, but an unprecedented 110 journalists were arrested or criminally charged in 2020 and around 300 were assaulted, the majority by law enforcement, according to the U.S. Press Freedom Tracker. At least 12 still face criminal charges, some of which carry jail terms. Observers told CPJ that the polarized political climate, militarized law enforcement, and vitriol toward the media combined during a wave of protests to eradicate norms that once afforded journalists police protection. But by all means keep believing in a black and white world.
    - unityByFreedom 6y ago
      CPJ, based in New York. Such an organization would never be allowed to exist in China. It is the likes of the CCP & Trump who would paint the world as black and white, i.e. you're either with me or against me. The rest of us acknowledge that press freedoms enable a spectrum of viewpoints.
      - 6y ago
approxim8ion 6y ago
>even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise. That's rather convenient. Wonder if any global powers with a vested interest could take advantage of this mindset...
- 42_ 6y ago
  Yeah, its convenient, but even more convenient is the mindset of ignoring existing evidence and bending over backwards for the pleasure of profiting off cheap manufacturing.