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That depends on your priorities. Australia got it right if your top priority is safety. It came at a cost. Residents were not permitted to move freely or assemb

That depends on your priorities. Australia got it right if your top priority is safety. It came at a cost. Residents were not permitted to move freely or assemble freely. This is not an option in the US. So I’ll ask a follow up: who did it right in a country/state that respects individual freedom above safety?

angled 6y ago
Australia is a federation of states, just like the USA. There are US states that restrict movement and gatherings for other reasons such as gang-related activity and organised crime; what was special in this case? It’s a strange question to say individual freedom and safety are two different things. Aren’t they the same thing? What is desirable about being free but unsafe?
- refurb 6y ago
  I mean we could have stopped Covid in it tracks in the US and been very safe if we just welded the doors shut to keep people in their homes but we aren’t going to do that.
  - sanp 6y ago
    Yeah. AUS, NZ, SK, Taiwan, Japan did not weld their doors shut. SK, Japan, Taiwan had more doors open than most of the US.
    - refurb 6y ago
      Japan has had an explosion of cases. Not a great example. The others are islands and they could easily restrict movement.
      - angled 6y ago
        Any country can be a logical island if it restricts movement at its national borders. Was the US powerless at the federal level to do this, or is that a state issue? Even grouping the US by landmarks (west of the Rockies, in between the Rockies and the Mississippi, east of the Mississippi) and having open interstate movement in those zones would have been a start. The options for handling COVID was not a binary choice between absolutely libertarian and absolutely draconian policies. There was and is a middle ground!
    - lenkite 6y ago
      International airport transits are still suspended. Travellers arriving in Taiwan need to provide a negative COVID-19 (PCR) test result issued within three business days before boarding your flight to Taiwan, regardless of nationality or visa status. Antigen or antibody test results will not be accepted. There's been a seventh automatic 30-day visa extension for foreigners who arrived on short-term visitor visas on or before 21 March 2020 and whose stay has exceeded 180 days.
- jandrewrogers 6y ago
  Being a "federation" has nothing to do with it. US States are expressly prohibited from closing their borders. That right to travel is near absolute in the US, even the Federal government can't prohibit it outside of very narrow cases that don't apply here. In the US, as a matter of Constitutional law, people have rights reserved to them that the government, State or Federal, cannot take away from them outside of narrow circumstances (like a felony conviction). Freedom of travel within the US happens to be one of those near absolute rights, like freedom of speech. Americans take this very seriously as a matter of culture; no court would allow it and there would be widespread civil disobedience if they tried.
sanp 6y ago
Aus and NZ respect individual freedom as long as it does impinge on the safety of others. It is a continuum. You can't drink and drive in the US. So, there is an example of safety over individual liberty. So, it's not like the US values individual liberty over safety all the time. AUS and NZ (and Taiwan and Japan and SK) chose to be on a different end of the continuum (and looks like were validated based on the outcomes)
quicklime 6y ago
I think the answer to your question is: Australia. I lived in NYC during the first wave. Now I live in Australia, and I have much more freedom than my American friends, by far. Going hard and going early maximizes both safety and freedom (and has better economic outcomes). Dragging your feet has costs.
LatteLazy 6y ago
Respectfully, I don't think this is true. Many Americans still can't exercise the freedoms aussies enjoy (going to restaurants/bars, schools being open in person etc). Australia gave those up for a few months and then got 90% back to normal. America and the UK have given those up for the best part of a year now and still have terrible covid numbers, growing numbers of variants, restrictions on gathering and other issues. We have lost a lot more freedom than they have.

angled 6y ago

Australia is a federation of states, just like the USA. There are US states that restrict movement and gatherings for other reasons such as gang-related activity and organised crime; what was special in this case? It’s a strange question to say individual freedom and safety are two different things. Aren’t they the same thing? What is desirable about being free but unsafe?

refurb 6y ago
I mean we could have stopped Covid in it tracks in the US and been very safe if we just welded the doors shut to keep people in their homes but we aren’t going to do that.
- sanp 6y ago
  Yeah. AUS, NZ, SK, Taiwan, Japan did not weld their doors shut. SK, Japan, Taiwan had more doors open than most of the US.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Japan has had an explosion of cases. Not a great example. The others are islands and they could easily restrict movement.
    - angled 6y ago
      Any country can be a logical island if it restricts movement at its national borders. Was the US powerless at the federal level to do this, or is that a state issue? Even grouping the US by landmarks (west of the Rockies, in between the Rockies and the Mississippi, east of the Mississippi) and having open interstate movement in those zones would have been a start. The options for handling COVID was not a binary choice between absolutely libertarian and absolutely draconian policies. There was and is a middle ground!
  - lenkite 6y ago
    International airport transits are still suspended. Travellers arriving in Taiwan need to provide a negative COVID-19 (PCR) test result issued within three business days before boarding your flight to Taiwan, regardless of nationality or visa status. Antigen or antibody test results will not be accepted. There's been a seventh automatic 30-day visa extension for foreigners who arrived on short-term visitor visas on or before 21 March 2020 and whose stay has exceeded 180 days.
jandrewrogers 6y ago
Being a "federation" has nothing to do with it. US States are expressly prohibited from closing their borders. That right to travel is near absolute in the US, even the Federal government can't prohibit it outside of very narrow cases that don't apply here. In the US, as a matter of Constitutional law, people have rights reserved to them that the government, State or Federal, cannot take away from them outside of narrow circumstances (like a felony conviction). Freedom of travel within the US happens to be one of those near absolute rights, like freedom of speech. Americans take this very seriously as a matter of culture; no court would allow it and there would be widespread civil disobedience if they tried.

sanp 6y ago

Aus and NZ respect individual freedom as long as it does impinge on the safety of others. It is a continuum. You can't drink and drive in the US. So, there is an example of safety over individual liberty. So, it's not like the US values individual liberty over safety all the time. AUS and NZ (and Taiwan and Japan and SK) chose to be on a different end of the continuum (and looks like were validated based on the outcomes)

quicklime 6y ago

I think the answer to your question is: Australia. I lived in NYC during the first wave. Now I live in Australia, and I have much more freedom than my American friends, by far. Going hard and going early maximizes both safety and freedom (and has better economic outcomes). Dragging your feet has costs.

LatteLazy 6y ago

Respectfully, I don't think this is true. Many Americans still can't exercise the freedoms aussies enjoy (going to restaurants/bars, schools being open in person etc). Australia gave those up for a few months and then got 90% back to normal. America and the UK have given those up for the best part of a year now and still have terrible covid numbers, growing numbers of variants, restrictions on gathering and other issues. We have lost a lot more freedom than they have.