3 ms·

A border is a border. You need permission to get across a border. It's not more draconian to restrict cross-border movement in Germany than it is in New Zealan

A border is a border. You need permission to get across a border. It's not more draconian to restrict cross-border movement in Germany than it is in New Zealand, Fiji, or Mali.

Arainach 6y ago
Hawaii and New Zealand have a fixed number of points of entry - airports for the most part, as well as a very few select ports (not that those are a major concern with recreational cruises shut down globally). Land borders are continuous with far more access points (spreading any testing or resources thin) and much more traffic due to lower cost and easier access.
- markdown 6y ago
  Surely you jest? Does Germany not have an army? It's one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They can definitely show down the borders any time they want. See this from a year ago: https://www.gov.si/en/news/2020-03-20-germany-limits-the-number-of-open-border-crossing-points/ https://www.gov.si/en/news/2020-03-20-germany-limits-the-num... > and much more traffic due to lower cost and easier access The traffic only exists while there is a high chance that people can cross the border. Close the borders for everything but cargo, and there will be much less traffic. People will make up all sorts of excuses, but in fact anything is possible if you take the risk seriously enough. I mean if COVID killed everyone it infected instantly and turned them into zombies, how soon would you see every way into Germany guarded?
  - zwaps 6y ago
    I generally think more can be done. But your post is simplifying much. Every way into German is literally all of it, except small parts in the North which are sea. Germany is all land border, essentially. Too much to control with any army. Ask Americans how that wall with Mexico is going. Like that. Also, when Europeans speak of border posts, they mean some scanners on otherwise open highways. However, this doesn't mean that there's some sort of restriction outside of these border posts. Shutting them down doesn't mean anything is closed or whatever. You can cross into Germany literally anywhere. There are no borders, not in the way that you think. When I was on the wrong side of the Dutch border soon before a local lockdown during a shooting, but was in a hurry, I just went through a village road. Heck, there's even towns that practically cross borders. How are you going to control every street? Right now, borders to several countries ARE closed. Does it stop most people coming to Germany? Nope. There are also political considerations that are too complex to discuss here. Livelihoods across borders depend on coming to Germany, as well as a lot of pan-EU traffic. An overreach is likely shut down by courts, in the worst case by an EU court, which opens a new can of worms. It's not as easy as you think.
    - markdown 6y ago
      Thank you. I appreciate the correction.
- quicklime 6y ago
  The flight route between Melbourne and Sydney used to be the second busiest in the world (not sure what is like now with the pandemic). There are a lot of people moving between the states of NSW and Victoria. But during outbreaks in both cities, there were border closures which included not just airports but also roads on the land border which is about 1000 km long. This protected one city from cases from the other.
read_if_gay_ 6y ago
If you live near a land border it’s not unlikely that some of your friends or family are on the other side of it. No such thing in Hawaii.

A border is a border. You need permission to get across a border. It's not more draconian to restrict cross-border movement in Germany than it is in New Zealand, Fiji, or Mali.

Arainach 6y ago

Hawaii and New Zealand have a fixed number of points of entry - airports for the most part, as well as a very few select ports (not that those are a major concern with recreational cruises shut down globally). Land borders are continuous with far more access points (spreading any testing or resources thin) and much more traffic due to lower cost and easier access.

markdown 6y ago
Surely you jest? Does Germany not have an army? It's one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They can definitely show down the borders any time they want. See this from a year ago: https://www.gov.si/en/news/2020-03-20-germany-limits-the-number-of-open-border-crossing-points/ https://www.gov.si/en/news/2020-03-20-germany-limits-the-num... > and much more traffic due to lower cost and easier access The traffic only exists while there is a high chance that people can cross the border. Close the borders for everything but cargo, and there will be much less traffic. People will make up all sorts of excuses, but in fact anything is possible if you take the risk seriously enough. I mean if COVID killed everyone it infected instantly and turned them into zombies, how soon would you see every way into Germany guarded?
- zwaps 6y ago
  I generally think more can be done. But your post is simplifying much. Every way into German is literally all of it, except small parts in the North which are sea. Germany is all land border, essentially. Too much to control with any army. Ask Americans how that wall with Mexico is going. Like that. Also, when Europeans speak of border posts, they mean some scanners on otherwise open highways. However, this doesn't mean that there's some sort of restriction outside of these border posts. Shutting them down doesn't mean anything is closed or whatever. You can cross into Germany literally anywhere. There are no borders, not in the way that you think. When I was on the wrong side of the Dutch border soon before a local lockdown during a shooting, but was in a hurry, I just went through a village road. Heck, there's even towns that practically cross borders. How are you going to control every street? Right now, borders to several countries ARE closed. Does it stop most people coming to Germany? Nope. There are also political considerations that are too complex to discuss here. Livelihoods across borders depend on coming to Germany, as well as a lot of pan-EU traffic. An overreach is likely shut down by courts, in the worst case by an EU court, which opens a new can of worms. It's not as easy as you think.
  - markdown 6y ago
    Thank you. I appreciate the correction.
quicklime 6y ago
The flight route between Melbourne and Sydney used to be the second busiest in the world (not sure what is like now with the pandemic). There are a lot of people moving between the states of NSW and Victoria. But during outbreaks in both cities, there were border closures which included not just airports but also roads on the land border which is about 1000 km long. This protected one city from cases from the other.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago

If you live near a land border it’s not unlikely that some of your friends or family are on the other side of it. No such thing in Hawaii.