4 ms·

> So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year? I wanted to buy a graphics card to run my models. I don't have the $$$ to buy a datacenter

> So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year? I wanted to buy a graphics card to run my models. I don't have the $$$ to buy a datacenter card for it and in general, I am affected by the demand and the scalpers. I was considering 3060 because my models are small and it is faster than my 1080ti, but at 21x9 1080p@60hz, it's not an upgrade for my gaming experience because that is capped by the monitor, and I am really not willing to buy a new monitor. > You said "NVDA's stance is that miners are the reason for scarce GPUs, but it is not." The reason is mentioned before, too much demand for chips, not enough fabrication. You instead, blame the scarcity on mining, mining is part of the demand but is not the main factor. Linus and many others, me included, disagree with your opinion that NVDA is helping gamers. NVDA does not care about gamers, they are a corporation, they care for their bottom line and their stock price.

dahart 6y ago
> Linus and many others, me included, disagree with your opinion that NVDA is helping gamers. NVDA does not care about gamers, they are a corporation, they care for their bottom line and their stock price. This argument that Nvidia is a company is a straw man. Valve is as much a corporation that doesn't care about gamers as Nvidia. I guarantee that Nvidia cares about gamers, precisely because gamers have a huge influence on NVDA's stock price and bottom line. I love Linux, but Linus has a vested interest in opposing Nvidia in public, and has a long history of making inflammatory remarks, even to people he works with. Using his opinion as support of your claims here undermines the credibility of the discussion, as far as I'm concerned. To attempt to move the goalpost back to where you first placed them, the question here is whether reserving 3060 sales for gamers is good or bad for gamers. You claim it's bad for gamers vs the second hand market next year, and I claim it's good for gamers vs the first hand market today. We haven't actually disagreed about this yet, because you haven't addressed how your opinion affects gamers right now. I agree that this might lead to a different second hand market next year. It is true that the second hand sales next year might not be as low without first having a big mining bubble that first prices gamers out and then crashes. I just don't believe that cheap cards later makes up for what miners have already done to you. If you do, it seems like you're ignoring some of the big downsides of what's happened before and what's happening now. > I am affected by the demand and the scalpers. I was considering 3060 If you want to buy a 3060 now, I don't understand why you can't see the CMP announcement as a good thing for you and your own bottom line. If you want to buy a used, mined 3060 later, and give your money to a miner and not Nvidia, then I do understand your points.
- PartiallyTyped 6y ago
  I am referring to this [1] Linus, not Torvalds. Watch the video. You have already decided that it is the miners that are screwing you over, and even when presented with evidence, you to the contrary, you keep shilling NVDA. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfIibTBaoMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfIibTBaoMM
  - dahart 6y ago
    Sorry, you're right, I misunderstood the Linus reference as Torvals not Linus Tech Tips. But so you count reductionist click bait opinion commentary on YouTube as "evidence"? Commentary that comes from a company who's profit motive is driven by clicks and attention? Saying that companies primarily care about their bottom line is tautological, it contains no information. It's still a straw man regarding whether or not segmenting 3060s is a net positive for gamers. Last chance... you still haven't addressed the first-hand market effect on gamers of trying to get miners to buy something else. You haven't yet backed your claim that this is bad for gamers right now. I've basically agreed with what you said might happen, that the second hand market won't look like what happened in 2018. I can only assume that if ad-hominems are going to be the response to an honest question to what you said, then you don't actually have an answer?
    - MavropaliasG 6y ago
      Did you watch the damn video mate?
      - dahart 6y ago
        Yes, I did, twice. The arguments in the video do not contain a single point that hasn’t been covered by people repeating the talking points here. The thing Linus didn’t address, and the thing people don’t seem to understand about the basic economics of the situation is that there is no amazing second hand market getting flooded with cheap GPUs without first getting hosed by miners, having the prices go through the roof and not being able to get one for the next year. If that happens, then yeah, sure, the used ones will be cheap some time later, and you don’t get to choose when or even if mining crashes before the next GPU update. If that’s really what you want... enjoy. That video is primarily an ad. It’s an ad for a VPN service and literally a ball-shaving kit. “If you imagine it any other way, then congratulations, you played yourself.” - Linus.

dahart 6y ago

> Linus and many others, me included, disagree with your opinion that NVDA is helping gamers. NVDA does not care about gamers, they are a corporation, they care for their bottom line and their stock price. This argument that Nvidia is a company is a straw man. Valve is as much a corporation that doesn't care about gamers as Nvidia. I guarantee that Nvidia cares about gamers, precisely because gamers have a huge influence on NVDA's stock price and bottom line. I love Linux, but Linus has a vested interest in opposing Nvidia in public, and has a long history of making inflammatory remarks, even to people he works with. Using his opinion as support of your claims here undermines the credibility of the discussion, as far as I'm concerned. To attempt to move the goalpost back to where you first placed them, the question here is whether reserving 3060 sales for gamers is good or bad for gamers. You claim it's bad for gamers vs the second hand market next year, and I claim it's good for gamers vs the first hand market today. We haven't actually disagreed about this yet, because you haven't addressed how your opinion affects gamers right now. I agree that this might lead to a different second hand market next year. It is true that the second hand sales next year might not be as low without first having a big mining bubble that first prices gamers out and then crashes. I just don't believe that cheap cards later makes up for what miners have already done to you. If you do, it seems like you're ignoring some of the big downsides of what's happened before and what's happening now. > I am affected by the demand and the scalpers. I was considering 3060 If you want to buy a 3060 now, I don't understand why you can't see the CMP announcement as a good thing for you and your own bottom line. If you want to buy a used, mined 3060 later, and give your money to a miner and not Nvidia, then I do understand your points.

PartiallyTyped 6y ago
I am referring to this [1] Linus, not Torvalds. Watch the video. You have already decided that it is the miners that are screwing you over, and even when presented with evidence, you to the contrary, you keep shilling NVDA. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfIibTBaoMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfIibTBaoMM
- dahart 6y ago
  Sorry, you're right, I misunderstood the Linus reference as Torvals not Linus Tech Tips. But so you count reductionist click bait opinion commentary on YouTube as "evidence"? Commentary that comes from a company who's profit motive is driven by clicks and attention? Saying that companies primarily care about their bottom line is tautological, it contains no information. It's still a straw man regarding whether or not segmenting 3060s is a net positive for gamers. Last chance... you still haven't addressed the first-hand market effect on gamers of trying to get miners to buy something else. You haven't yet backed your claim that this is bad for gamers right now. I've basically agreed with what you said might happen, that the second hand market won't look like what happened in 2018. I can only assume that if ad-hominems are going to be the response to an honest question to what you said, then you don't actually have an answer?
  - MavropaliasG 6y ago
    Did you watch the damn video mate?
    - dahart 6y ago
      Yes, I did, twice. The arguments in the video do not contain a single point that hasn’t been covered by people repeating the talking points here. The thing Linus didn’t address, and the thing people don’t seem to understand about the basic economics of the situation is that there is no amazing second hand market getting flooded with cheap GPUs without first getting hosed by miners, having the prices go through the roof and not being able to get one for the next year. If that happens, then yeah, sure, the used ones will be cheap some time later, and you don’t get to choose when or even if mining crashes before the next GPU update. If that’s really what you want... enjoy. That video is primarily an ad. It’s an ad for a VPN service and literally a ball-shaving kit. “If you imagine it any other way, then congratulations, you played yourself.” - Linus.