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Is there a need for browser-level support for math formulas anymore? https://www.mathjax.org/ https://www.mathjax.org/ is a good support library if you want mat

by sxp 6y ago

Is there a need for browser-level support for math formulas anymore? https://www.mathjax.org/ https://www.mathjax.org/ is a good support library if you want math in your webpage and don't want to resort to images. I've used it with https://casual-effects.com/markdeep/features.md.html#embeddedmath https://casual-effects.com/markdeep/features.md.html#embedde... and haven't had any issues.

rhn_mk1 6y ago
There's absolutely a need for some rendering of formulas that doesn't need JavaScript. Formulas don't have anything that would require Turing-completeness to display.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Wait until you hear about font shaping.
  - yakubin 6y ago
    Chromium already handles that. There is no need to rewrite Freetype in JS and require websites, which display text, to ship a freetype.js. But this is what happens for maths in Chromium. No need to turn simple documents containing some formulas into applications.
drran 6y ago
MathJax uses MathML. :-/
- randomfool 6y ago
  It has a MathML fallback, but does not require MathML. Here's a useful discussion about MathML support in KaTeX (an alternative to MathJax) and it's importance for accessibility- https://github.com/KaTeX/KaTeX/issues/593 https://github.com/KaTeX/KaTeX/issues/593
  - pera 6y ago
    I believe the parent means that MathJax uses MathML internally: > MathJax uses MathML as the basis for its internal format for mathematical expressions, so MathML support is built into MathJax at a fundamental level. https://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/output/mathml.html https://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/output/mathml.html I seems a requirement for accessibility.
  - disabled 6y ago
    Wow, I just checked out this discussion! The links and references are wonderful! I am definitely going to become a developer for KaTeX now! :-) You also gave me a lot more solid information to step up my game as an electrical engineering student who uses braille. You are a real MVP! :)
- zamadatix 6y ago
  It can use MathML, as an input or output format, but it's certainly not limited to it for either.
- Kwpolska 6y ago
  Pretty much all uses of MathJax use it with LaTeX input and HTML-CSS output, no MathML involved.
- disabled 6y ago
  Perhaps I should share how I take my electrical engineering notes, which are extremely math heavy. It probably is interesting. MathML is effectively the accessibility standard for people who have print-related disabilities (which I have), not LaTeX. There really is no way around it. One way or another, I basically do everything in MathML. MathJax in academic courses, in terms of accessibility, is the way to go. Here is an awesome reference: Preparing Accessible Math Documents using MathJax v3 https://progressiveaccess.com/ahg19/ahg19.pdf https://progressiveaccess.com/ahg19/ahg19.pdf But MathJax is clunky and requires an internet connection. It just is not sleek or nice to use. There are some pretty good scripts which back-translate LaTeX into MathML. Likewise, there are scripts that back-translate MathML into LaTeX. You may find this interesting: For my graduate electrical engineering coursework, I take all of my notes using a braille notetaker (8 key input where each braille cell is created by combinations of these keys known as chords) connected to my laptop running a screenreader known as JAWS. I take all of my notes in Lambda braille code, which gets back-translated to MathML on my computer. It is an extremely efficient way of taking notes and doing coursework. My peers are actually jealous of my ability to create such amazing notes. I have the best cheat sheets for exams: everyone wants a copy of mine. Sometimes using OCR can be useful: Rarely I like to take notes with a pencil and paper (I can see perfectly fine but I have a print-related disability). Sometimes I like to take screenshots of math online. Sometimes I want a whole page of math equations from a textbook. For this, I use MathPix (MathML, LaTeX, and several other outputs): https://mathpix.com/ https://mathpix.com/ There is also InftyReader, which does the same (but no handwriting recognition!), and is not nearly as user-friendly, or updated, for that matter (MathML, LaTeX, and several other outputs): https://www.inftyreader.org/ https://www.inftyreader.org/ Perhaps some people here might be interested in speech-to-text rendering of math in LaTeX, which I do not use. You may want to check out this fascinating post: https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/145367/how-can-i-use-dragon-naturallyspeaking-to-write-latex-math-formulas-by-voice-eff https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/145367/how-can-i-use... There is some program called MathTalk which does this, in conjunction with Dragon Naturally Speaking Professional: https://mathtalk.com/mathtalk-products/ https://mathtalk.com/mathtalk-products/ But, apparently, there is a better, more updated, open source package, utilizing Dragon Naturally Speaking Professional, which does speech-to-text LaTeX called Mathfly: https://mathfly.org/ https://mathfly.org/ The speech aspect could be useful for learning, in terms of reinforcement, especially with the braille keyboard rendered MathML notes. It could be used for Anki flashcards (spaced repetition), or audio notes apps such as Audio Notetaker or Glean (see: https://sonocent.com/ https://sonocent.com/).

by sxp 6y ago

rhn_mk1 6y ago

There's absolutely a need for some rendering of formulas that doesn't need JavaScript. Formulas don't have anything that would require Turing-completeness to display.

saagarjha 6y ago
Wait until you hear about font shaping.
- yakubin 6y ago
  Chromium already handles that. There is no need to rewrite Freetype in JS and require websites, which display text, to ship a freetype.js. But this is what happens for maths in Chromium. No need to turn simple documents containing some formulas into applications.

drran 6y ago

MathJax uses MathML. :-/

randomfool 6y ago
It has a MathML fallback, but does not require MathML. Here's a useful discussion about MathML support in KaTeX (an alternative to MathJax) and it's importance for accessibility- https://github.com/KaTeX/KaTeX/issues/593 https://github.com/KaTeX/KaTeX/issues/593
- pera 6y ago
  I believe the parent means that MathJax uses MathML internally: > MathJax uses MathML as the basis for its internal format for mathematical expressions, so MathML support is built into MathJax at a fundamental level. https://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/output/mathml.html https://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/output/mathml.html I seems a requirement for accessibility.
- disabled 6y ago
  Wow, I just checked out this discussion! The links and references are wonderful! I am definitely going to become a developer for KaTeX now! :-) You also gave me a lot more solid information to step up my game as an electrical engineering student who uses braille. You are a real MVP! :)
zamadatix 6y ago
It can use MathML, as an input or output format, but it's certainly not limited to it for either.
Kwpolska 6y ago
Pretty much all uses of MathJax use it with LaTeX input and HTML-CSS output, no MathML involved.
disabled 6y ago
Perhaps I should share how I take my electrical engineering notes, which are extremely math heavy. It probably is interesting. MathML is effectively the accessibility standard for people who have print-related disabilities (which I have), not LaTeX. There really is no way around it. One way or another, I basically do everything in MathML. MathJax in academic courses, in terms of accessibility, is the way to go. Here is an awesome reference: Preparing Accessible Math Documents using MathJax v3 https://progressiveaccess.com/ahg19/ahg19.pdf https://progressiveaccess.com/ahg19/ahg19.pdf But MathJax is clunky and requires an internet connection. It just is not sleek or nice to use. There are some pretty good scripts which back-translate LaTeX into MathML. Likewise, there are scripts that back-translate MathML into LaTeX. You may find this interesting: For my graduate electrical engineering coursework, I take all of my notes using a braille notetaker (8 key input where each braille cell is created by combinations of these keys known as chords) connected to my laptop running a screenreader known as JAWS. I take all of my notes in Lambda braille code, which gets back-translated to MathML on my computer. It is an extremely efficient way of taking notes and doing coursework. My peers are actually jealous of my ability to create such amazing notes. I have the best cheat sheets for exams: everyone wants a copy of mine. Sometimes using OCR can be useful: Rarely I like to take notes with a pencil and paper (I can see perfectly fine but I have a print-related disability). Sometimes I like to take screenshots of math online. Sometimes I want a whole page of math equations from a textbook. For this, I use MathPix (MathML, LaTeX, and several other outputs): https://mathpix.com/ https://mathpix.com/ There is also InftyReader, which does the same (but no handwriting recognition!), and is not nearly as user-friendly, or updated, for that matter (MathML, LaTeX, and several other outputs): https://www.inftyreader.org/ https://www.inftyreader.org/ Perhaps some people here might be interested in speech-to-text rendering of math in LaTeX, which I do not use. You may want to check out this fascinating post: https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/145367/how-can-i-use-dragon-naturallyspeaking-to-write-latex-math-formulas-by-voice-eff https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/145367/how-can-i-use... There is some program called MathTalk which does this, in conjunction with Dragon Naturally Speaking Professional: https://mathtalk.com/mathtalk-products/ https://mathtalk.com/mathtalk-products/ But, apparently, there is a better, more updated, open source package, utilizing Dragon Naturally Speaking Professional, which does speech-to-text LaTeX called Mathfly: https://mathfly.org/ https://mathfly.org/ The speech aspect could be useful for learning, in terms of reinforcement, especially with the braille keyboard rendered MathML notes. It could be used for Anki flashcards (spaced repetition), or audio notes apps such as Audio Notetaker or Glean (see: https://sonocent.com/ https://sonocent.com/).