5 ms·

I've visited Singapore twice. I've settled in Australia, originally from Europe. I was really worried when I visited Singapore and took their 'tourist' tour. T

by keyle 15y ago

I've visited Singapore twice. I've settled in Australia, originally from Europe. I was really worried when I visited Singapore and took their 'tourist' tour. They put you in a bus, drive you around all jetlagged and give you orange juice on the beach. Completely surreal. What really put me off was their unconditional love for their government. The woman 'tour guide' in the bus just couldn't stop thanking the government for giving them so much. It was unhealthy. Yet they don't own anything and they live in towers. Sure it was really pretty but it freaked me out a little. I felt a deep communism in this pro-capitalist ex-colony. I'm no die hard capitalist but I prefer the australian way of owning my own life and freely talking crap of the government.

shii 15y ago
s/communism/totalitarianism/g and you'll make better sense.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- StavrosK 15y ago
  Thank you, I hate it when the two are used interchangeably.
  - ams6110 15y ago
    In practice they go hand-in-hand
    - StavrosK 15y ago
      I know many totalitarian regimes that aren't communist.
    - epochwolf 15y ago
      Communist countries tend to be totalitarian, the reverse isn't true.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
phlux 15y ago
That was the tour guide -- you get a completely different version of things in a candid discussion with friends who live there. I am by no means an expert on the politics there at all, but if one thinks that the us political system is not more corrupt at the highest levels then is simply delusional -- yet life is good for most of us in the US. I think that one can create a bit of there reality and are not 100% subjected to the douchebaggery of their government, same goes for singapore -- just dont make the cardinal mistake (which applies equally globally) of being poor.
- mikemaccana 15y ago
  Yes, but protesting isn't illegal in the us.
  - kelnos 15y ago
    No, it's just restricted to "Free Speech Zones".
astrec 15y ago
Australians have no constitutional right to free speech, and some forms of speech are expressly criminalised via the sedition and various vilification acts. The only form of speech that enjoys some protection is political speech. So whilst Australian's can freely talk crap about the government, Australia is far from a beacon of free speech.
- keyle 15y ago
  Are you referring to rights of anarchism? I'm no trespasser and trouble maker, but I can tell you that anybody is free to do whatever they intend to in Australia, so as long as it doesn't impair other people doing so. In other words, you're as free as you can be without causing damage to others. I'm not sure what you're referring to though. On my way home I saw dudes roller-blading half naked in the city. I call that freedom. Do you have examples?
  - astrec 15y ago
    No. I'm referring to the constitutional right to free speech. The statement "anybody is free to do whatever they intend to in Australia, so as long as it doesn't impair other people doing so" is as absurd as it is false. There are reams of legislation to prevent you from doing everything from arriving unlawfully by boat, to lying about your income, to using a wire carriage service to cause offence. As to speech, here is a simplistic example: Let's say I walk into Federation Square and say to you "Go and burn down the Parliament, you useless white cunt!" Depending on who takes offence to my comments I can be: a) Issued an on the spot fine for AUD$238.50 for using language likely to cause offence in a public place. b) Prosecuted for racial vilification. c) Prosecuted for sedition. The fact that all but a) are highly unlikely does nothing to progress the case that "anybody is free to do whatever they intend to in Australia".
    - kgtm 15y ago
      I'm sorry, but I think you are confused regarding what constitutes free speech. Either that, or a very poor example you chose...
yaix 15y ago
When you take a look around Singapore's neigbor countries and their living conditions, you must admit that the Sing' government did a pretty good job so far. And then there is the asian culture of not being to critical to the "superior". You even have that in democratic Japan and SKorea. Talking crap about the gov is more a Western life style (mine too, 'cause I m from Europe too, but have lived in Asia long enough to know that there are different ways of seing things). And talking about free speech: Have a look at the Internet censorship laws in Australia!
- csbutler 15y ago
  At the moment, the only part of the internet in Australia that is censored by law are some usenet groups.
- netcan 15y ago
  I think we really need to watch out when we label certain sorts of thing Western. I know it usually comes from an attempt to be culturally sensitive, but it's just not true and potentially harmful. Gender equality is not rooted in Western culture. It sucked being a woman equally in Glasgow, Shanghai & Algiers. Gender equality was spread with difficulty and imperfectly over a decade in throughout liberal democracies and communist countries. It skipped the third world, but gender equality is no more part of Spanish culture then it is Qatari. Same for "western" democracy, western medicine and a big chuck of western values. It wasn't cool to criticize kings or dictators anywhere at some point.
  - ori_b 15y ago
    Western culture does include the changes since the enlightenment era and forward, you realize? Culture isn't static, and gender equality has become a part of western culture -- at least in principle. Similarly, freedom of speech has slowly become a part of western culture, although it has a way to go as well. This wasn't always the case, but that doesn't disqualify the current situation.
  - wyclif 15y ago
    On gender equality, you speak in terms of black and white when in reality there are many shades of grey. For example, you say it "skipped the third world" but I think if you've ever been to the Philippines, which is usually classified as a third world country, you'd see that women have just as many rights and freedoms as in some Western countries. Filipino women can become doctors and engineers, and many have jobs in government.

by keyle 15y ago

shii 15y ago

s/communism/totalitarianism/g and you'll make better sense.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
StavrosK 15y ago
Thank you, I hate it when the two are used interchangeably.
- ams6110 15y ago
  In practice they go hand-in-hand
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    I know many totalitarian regimes that aren't communist.
  - epochwolf 15y ago
    Communist countries tend to be totalitarian, the reverse isn't true.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

phlux 15y ago

That was the tour guide -- you get a completely different version of things in a candid discussion with friends who live there. I am by no means an expert on the politics there at all, but if one thinks that the us political system is not more corrupt at the highest levels then is simply delusional -- yet life is good for most of us in the US. I think that one can create a bit of there reality and are not 100% subjected to the douchebaggery of their government, same goes for singapore -- just dont make the cardinal mistake (which applies equally globally) of being poor.

mikemaccana 15y ago
Yes, but protesting isn't illegal in the us.
- kelnos 15y ago
  No, it's just restricted to "Free Speech Zones".

astrec 15y ago

Australians have no constitutional right to free speech, and some forms of speech are expressly criminalised via the sedition and various vilification acts. The only form of speech that enjoys some protection is political speech. So whilst Australian's can freely talk crap about the government, Australia is far from a beacon of free speech.

keyle 15y ago
Are you referring to rights of anarchism? I'm no trespasser and trouble maker, but I can tell you that anybody is free to do whatever they intend to in Australia, so as long as it doesn't impair other people doing so. In other words, you're as free as you can be without causing damage to others. I'm not sure what you're referring to though. On my way home I saw dudes roller-blading half naked in the city. I call that freedom. Do you have examples?
- astrec 15y ago
  No. I'm referring to the constitutional right to free speech. The statement "anybody is free to do whatever they intend to in Australia, so as long as it doesn't impair other people doing so" is as absurd as it is false. There are reams of legislation to prevent you from doing everything from arriving unlawfully by boat, to lying about your income, to using a wire carriage service to cause offence. As to speech, here is a simplistic example: Let's say I walk into Federation Square and say to you "Go and burn down the Parliament, you useless white cunt!" Depending on who takes offence to my comments I can be: a) Issued an on the spot fine for AUD$238.50 for using language likely to cause offence in a public place. b) Prosecuted for racial vilification. c) Prosecuted for sedition. The fact that all but a) are highly unlikely does nothing to progress the case that "anybody is free to do whatever they intend to in Australia".
  - kgtm 15y ago
    I'm sorry, but I think you are confused regarding what constitutes free speech. Either that, or a very poor example you chose...

yaix 15y ago

When you take a look around Singapore's neigbor countries and their living conditions, you must admit that the Sing' government did a pretty good job so far. And then there is the asian culture of not being to critical to the "superior". You even have that in democratic Japan and SKorea. Talking crap about the gov is more a Western life style (mine too, 'cause I m from Europe too, but have lived in Asia long enough to know that there are different ways of seing things). And talking about free speech: Have a look at the Internet censorship laws in Australia!

csbutler 15y ago
At the moment, the only part of the internet in Australia that is censored by law are some usenet groups.
netcan 15y ago
I think we really need to watch out when we label certain sorts of thing Western. I know it usually comes from an attempt to be culturally sensitive, but it's just not true and potentially harmful. Gender equality is not rooted in Western culture. It sucked being a woman equally in Glasgow, Shanghai & Algiers. Gender equality was spread with difficulty and imperfectly over a decade in throughout liberal democracies and communist countries. It skipped the third world, but gender equality is no more part of Spanish culture then it is Qatari. Same for "western" democracy, western medicine and a big chuck of western values. It wasn't cool to criticize kings or dictators anywhere at some point.
- ori_b 15y ago
  Western culture does include the changes since the enlightenment era and forward, you realize? Culture isn't static, and gender equality has become a part of western culture -- at least in principle. Similarly, freedom of speech has slowly become a part of western culture, although it has a way to go as well. This wasn't always the case, but that doesn't disqualify the current situation.
- wyclif 15y ago
  On gender equality, you speak in terms of black and white when in reality there are many shades of grey. For example, you say it "skipped the third world" but I think if you've ever been to the Philippines, which is usually classified as a third world country, you'd see that women have just as many rights and freedoms as in some Western countries. Filipino women can become doctors and engineers, and many have jobs in government.