5 ms·

Bill is included in the income tax. Funnily enough it does not apply to people living off shares, they truly pay £0 or close.

geden 6y ago
Dividends are mildly taxed now.
- vidarh 6y ago
  Capital gains are. Dividends ends up effectively taxed similarly to income when you factor in that dividends are taxed after corporation tax. This is very intentional in that it closed much of the loophole of paying yourself via a limited company paying dividends. Still a bit cheaper but not much.
blacktulip 6y ago
Do you mean stock dividends? They are taxed - and not lightly: https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends
- vidarh 6y ago
  Well, capital gains is taxed much lower. Also combined with the ISA limits (20k put into ISA's each year - do it every year and your returns start adding up), you can get quite significant returns without paying tax at all. The UK tax system looks a lot more progressive on the surface than it is once you earn enough to take advantage of the various tax breaks. That said, few people will pay nothing - what they won't be paying if they live off share return (be it dividends or capital gains) is national insurance. I'm assuming that's what the person you replied to meant. However that means nothing in terms of NHS funding any more, as NI just goes into the general treasury fund in practice. It's become part of a convenient fiction about UK tax rates, given that most people are unaware of the way NI is structured. In effect the "20%" marginal tax band is roughly 32% marginal when you factor in NI, and the "40%" marginal tax band is really 42%, and the 45% band is effectively 47%. The 20/40/45 looks a lot less progressive when it's actually about 32/42/47 (even less so when you factor in the many tax breaks those of us on the higher or additional rate can afford to take advantage of that lower earners can't)
uncledave 6y ago
This. I wish people would stop saying the NHS is free because it's not. It's equal for everyone regardless of your income and that's awesome as far as I'm concerned. Some others, not so much, particularly those who think that they shouldn't pay for someone else's treatment.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > It's equal for everyone regardless of your income Are you familiar with the term 'postcode lottery'? And what impacts which postcodes you can live in? Your income.
  - uncledave 6y ago
    Yes. That's why there is the NHS Choices Framework which allows you to choose both GP and outpatients. My GP is 40 miles away. My daughter is treated for her condition at Guys even though we're 20 miles away and there is a different local hospital. The postcode lottery doesn't exist unless you're dragged into an A&E.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > My GP is 40 miles away... Great! Everyone can afford the time and expense of travelling far away to a better GP... oh no wait that also depends on income.
      - uncledave 6y ago
        Erm no it doesn't You think I actually go and see the GP? No they call me instead and talk any problems through. I haven't been to a GP for about 10 years and have had a few appointments and referrals. As for the transport costs, for referred appointments that's covered under HTCS if you can't afford to travel.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        > I haven't been to a GP for about 10 years and have had a few appointments and referrals. Good for you? What about people who do need to regularly go and see their GP? > As for the transport costs, for referred appointments that's covered under HTCS if you can't afford to travel. What about those GP visits some people less fortunate than yourself need? And HTCS is for extremely low-income people. It doesn't cover normal working class people's extra costs. People less fortunate than yourself struggle to get equality in the NHS. Sometimes they don't even have the knowledge and confidence that you do to use the systems you're talking about. Fundamentally they shouldn't be required, rather than fortunate people saying 'I'm alright Jack'.

geden 6y ago

Dividends are mildly taxed now.

vidarh 6y ago
Capital gains are. Dividends ends up effectively taxed similarly to income when you factor in that dividends are taxed after corporation tax. This is very intentional in that it closed much of the loophole of paying yourself via a limited company paying dividends. Still a bit cheaper but not much.

blacktulip 6y ago

Do you mean stock dividends? They are taxed - and not lightly: https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends

vidarh 6y ago
Well, capital gains is taxed much lower. Also combined with the ISA limits (20k put into ISA's each year - do it every year and your returns start adding up), you can get quite significant returns without paying tax at all. The UK tax system looks a lot more progressive on the surface than it is once you earn enough to take advantage of the various tax breaks. That said, few people will pay nothing - what they won't be paying if they live off share return (be it dividends or capital gains) is national insurance. I'm assuming that's what the person you replied to meant. However that means nothing in terms of NHS funding any more, as NI just goes into the general treasury fund in practice. It's become part of a convenient fiction about UK tax rates, given that most people are unaware of the way NI is structured. In effect the "20%" marginal tax band is roughly 32% marginal when you factor in NI, and the "40%" marginal tax band is really 42%, and the 45% band is effectively 47%. The 20/40/45 looks a lot less progressive when it's actually about 32/42/47 (even less so when you factor in the many tax breaks those of us on the higher or additional rate can afford to take advantage of that lower earners can't)

uncledave 6y ago

This. I wish people would stop saying the NHS is free because it's not. It's equal for everyone regardless of your income and that's awesome as far as I'm concerned. Some others, not so much, particularly those who think that they shouldn't pay for someone else's treatment.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> It's equal for everyone regardless of your income Are you familiar with the term 'postcode lottery'? And what impacts which postcodes you can live in? Your income.
- uncledave 6y ago
  Yes. That's why there is the NHS Choices Framework which allows you to choose both GP and outpatients. My GP is 40 miles away. My daughter is treated for her condition at Guys even though we're 20 miles away and there is a different local hospital. The postcode lottery doesn't exist unless you're dragged into an A&E.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > My GP is 40 miles away... Great! Everyone can afford the time and expense of travelling far away to a better GP... oh no wait that also depends on income.
    - uncledave 6y ago
      Erm no it doesn't You think I actually go and see the GP? No they call me instead and talk any problems through. I haven't been to a GP for about 10 years and have had a few appointments and referrals. As for the transport costs, for referred appointments that's covered under HTCS if you can't afford to travel.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        > I haven't been to a GP for about 10 years and have had a few appointments and referrals. Good for you? What about people who do need to regularly go and see their GP? > As for the transport costs, for referred appointments that's covered under HTCS if you can't afford to travel. What about those GP visits some people less fortunate than yourself need? And HTCS is for extremely low-income people. It doesn't cover normal working class people's extra costs. People less fortunate than yourself struggle to get equality in the NHS. Sometimes they don't even have the knowledge and confidence that you do to use the systems you're talking about. Fundamentally they shouldn't be required, rather than fortunate people saying 'I'm alright Jack'.