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Agreed. Surprised there are so many Bitcoin lovers on HN and in the startup scene, which is supposed to consist of smarter-than-average people. Bitcoin is basic

Agreed. Surprised there are so many Bitcoin lovers on HN and in the startup scene, which is supposed to consist of smarter-than-average people. Bitcoin is basically shitty gold, because unlike gold, it has no intrinsic value and can go to zero, it's all based on fragile sentiment.

177tcca 6y ago
Same can be said for gold. Are most users even capable of melting it into tools when there's nobody that wants to trade for it?
- tradri 6y ago
  The argument for gold is that it isn't 100% a speculative investment. According to Wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold) 50% of gold's use case is in making jewelry and 10% is used for industry. On the other hand, Bitcoin isn't used for anything, except as for a speculative investment, not even as a currency or as a "decentralized PayPal".
  - wyldfire 6y ago
    Liquid value that's easily transferred has utility on its own. It's not a genuine argument to claim that "bitcoin isn't used for anything".
    - tradri 6y ago
      For the vast majority of people Bitcoin in its current form provides a worse user experience than PayPal, VISA, etc.. because the fees are a lot higher and the transaction times are longer. If you want to buy $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin the $5-$50 transaction fee doesn't matter. For the majority of people it matters though.
    - RivieraKid 6y ago
      That's the value of the Bitcoin system, not of a single Bitcoin. Gold can provide utility by itself, for example, you can make jewelry from it.
      - 177tcca 6y ago
        Do you think the value of Facebook stock is in the tangible worth of their building, or IP?
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > The argument for gold is that it isn't 100% a speculative investment. According to Wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold) 50% of gold's use case is in making jewelry and 10% is used for industry. On the other hand, Bitcoin isn't used for anything, except as for a speculative investment, not even as a currency or as a "decentralized PayPal". Also, Gold has literally thousands of years of cultural precedent as being a "valuable thing." Bitcoin, not so much.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  Right, where would people even get 700 B.C. technology to “use” gold!? (Of course gold has intrinsic value! Just because you can’t use a thing, doesn’t make it worthless to me, I’ll still buy your gold despite you not knowing anything but how to pull it from your pocket)
- kgwgk 6y ago
  What would you rather have magically transferred to you and why? All the gold in the world or all the bitcoins in the world?
wyldfire 6y ago
I think bitcoin can be a technological marvel that has utility to humanity, even if it's being pumped artificially and its value falls back to (or below) what it was before it was pumped. I think you underestimate just how mighty 'fragile' sentiment can be.
louwrentius 6y ago
It is even worse than gold: it has negative value due to the insane energy consumption.
- bcrosby95 6y ago
  I assume you've weighed this against the waste materials and environmental impact that results from mining gold, such the usage of mercury or cyanide to process the ore.
dbs 6y ago
Newton lost a lot of money in the south sea bubble. Just because they are smarter it does not make them more rational.
creepto 6y ago
I've been cashing out of my crypto weekly. Started in January, going to continue until i'm dry. I can't predict when this garbage explodes, but i'll at least have the majority of the money out or all of it. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but all of this is fishy as fuck. Defi loans, using your crypto as collateral to buy more crypto, tether printing off the charts. Most people don't care though, they see number go up and ignore the noise.
ardy42 6y ago
> Agreed. Surprised there are so many Bitcoin lovers on HN and in the startup scene, which is supposed to consist of smarter-than-average people. Bitcoin is basically shitty gold, because unlike gold, it has no intrinsic value and can go to zero, it's all based on fragile sentiment. Being "smart" often doesn't translate into making good decisions or having good judgment. Sometimes intelligence only amounts to better capabilities at rationalizing whatever harebrained thing you already wanted to do, instead of giving up on it. I think Bitcoin hits a bunch of special-interest buttons in some people that make it very difficult to put aside, for instance: truly innovative technology, startup thinking/wanting to be in on the "ground floor" of a big success, sci-fi made real, libertarianism, etc.

177tcca 6y ago

Same can be said for gold. Are most users even capable of melting it into tools when there's nobody that wants to trade for it?

tradri 6y ago
The argument for gold is that it isn't 100% a speculative investment. According to Wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold) 50% of gold's use case is in making jewelry and 10% is used for industry. On the other hand, Bitcoin isn't used for anything, except as for a speculative investment, not even as a currency or as a "decentralized PayPal".
- wyldfire 6y ago
  Liquid value that's easily transferred has utility on its own. It's not a genuine argument to claim that "bitcoin isn't used for anything".
  - tradri 6y ago
    For the vast majority of people Bitcoin in its current form provides a worse user experience than PayPal, VISA, etc.. because the fees are a lot higher and the transaction times are longer. If you want to buy $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin the $5-$50 transaction fee doesn't matter. For the majority of people it matters though.
  - RivieraKid 6y ago
    That's the value of the Bitcoin system, not of a single Bitcoin. Gold can provide utility by itself, for example, you can make jewelry from it.
    - 177tcca 6y ago
      Do you think the value of Facebook stock is in the tangible worth of their building, or IP?
- ardy42 6y ago
  > The argument for gold is that it isn't 100% a speculative investment. According to Wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold) 50% of gold's use case is in making jewelry and 10% is used for industry. On the other hand, Bitcoin isn't used for anything, except as for a speculative investment, not even as a currency or as a "decentralized PayPal". Also, Gold has literally thousands of years of cultural precedent as being a "valuable thing." Bitcoin, not so much.
SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
Right, where would people even get 700 B.C. technology to “use” gold!? (Of course gold has intrinsic value! Just because you can’t use a thing, doesn’t make it worthless to me, I’ll still buy your gold despite you not knowing anything but how to pull it from your pocket)
kgwgk 6y ago
What would you rather have magically transferred to you and why? All the gold in the world or all the bitcoins in the world?

wyldfire 6y ago

I think bitcoin can be a technological marvel that has utility to humanity, even if it's being pumped artificially and its value falls back to (or below) what it was before it was pumped. I think you underestimate just how mighty 'fragile' sentiment can be.

louwrentius 6y ago

It is even worse than gold: it has negative value due to the insane energy consumption.

bcrosby95 6y ago
I assume you've weighed this against the waste materials and environmental impact that results from mining gold, such the usage of mercury or cyanide to process the ore.

dbs 6y ago

Newton lost a lot of money in the south sea bubble. Just because they are smarter it does not make them more rational.

creepto 6y ago

I've been cashing out of my crypto weekly. Started in January, going to continue until i'm dry. I can't predict when this garbage explodes, but i'll at least have the majority of the money out or all of it. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but all of this is fishy as fuck. Defi loans, using your crypto as collateral to buy more crypto, tether printing off the charts. Most people don't care though, they see number go up and ignore the noise.

ardy42 6y ago

> Agreed. Surprised there are so many Bitcoin lovers on HN and in the startup scene, which is supposed to consist of smarter-than-average people. Bitcoin is basically shitty gold, because unlike gold, it has no intrinsic value and can go to zero, it's all based on fragile sentiment. Being "smart" often doesn't translate into making good decisions or having good judgment. Sometimes intelligence only amounts to better capabilities at rationalizing whatever harebrained thing you already wanted to do, instead of giving up on it. I think Bitcoin hits a bunch of special-interest buttons in some people that make it very difficult to put aside, for instance: truly innovative technology, startup thinking/wanting to be in on the "ground floor" of a big success, sci-fi made real, libertarianism, etc.