24 ms·

I moved to Singapore

238 points by sivers 15y ago

bemmu 15y ago
I would recommend against putting a scan of an identity card online.
- jackowayed 15y ago
  Yeah, I was wondering about that too. But is that number publicly available? If so (or if nothing bad happens if people do know it), is there an issue? Edit: Hmm ... "This has led to complaints of the possibility of fraud and identity theft. Therefore, now when NRIC numbers are publicly displayed, only the last three digits and the letters are displayed." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_Card http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_...
  - sivers 15y ago
    This is one way to find out. You've also got my home address and mobile phone# in the public corporate records (see bottom of http://50pop.com/ http://50pop.com/ ) - so I'm not relying on security through obscurity.
    - bemmu 15y ago
      After proudly getting my driver's license I put an image of it online. Someone printed it out while replacing the picture with their own face. Police saw this fake ID. Even though the quality was laughable, I was called in for questioning because they thought I might have cooperated in the fraud. But yeah, probably an unlikely enough event to not worry about it.
    - happywolf 15y ago
      A lot of banks and telcos in SG will use your DOB, mailing address, and NRIC number as security questions when you call them. Posting your info here is not wise IMHO.
nithyad 15y ago
Hope I visit you in Singapore before you move out to another part of the world!
seymores 15y ago
Wow, where do you hang out?
- sivers 15y ago
  Home. Working. I prefer solitude. I don't hang out much. http://www.tagbento.com/243/dereks-desk http://www.tagbento.com/243/dereks-desk
  - jrockway 15y ago
    I don't hang out much. This sounds counter to your goal "to remove the separations of “us” and “them”."
  - jianxioy 15y ago
    Great view of Parkview Square there. Welcome to Singapore. :)
  - seymores 15y ago
    Well, you should check out the meetup scene, lots of them almost on weekly basis. Love to bump into you in one of those meetups.
  - louislouis 15y ago
    How the hell can u work like that for a number of hours at a time? The weight of the laptop on your legs, not to mention the heat from the fan must make it bearable for only a short time. A desk/table for minimum requirement surely.
  - caswabi 15y ago
    Welcome! btw, is your office on Beach rd? ours is too (Shaw Tower), hope to run into you around the area.
    - sivers 15y ago
      Feel free to email me anytime : http://sivers.org/contact http://sivers.org/contact
BadassFractal 15y ago
Pretty amazed that you got permanent residency in under 8 months. That'd be amazing in the US.
nikcub 15y ago
congrats! you should totally blur your national ID number, though and I had no idea they do the old 'race on national ID' thing
shmulkey18 15y ago
Are you enjoying living in a police state? Seriously.
- iantimothy 15y ago
  We aren't a police state. We enjoy different kinds of freedom. Sure, previously some of the 'freedom to' stuff was clammed down upon,but the recent elections showed that we might be moving forward in the right direction. I am casually optimistic that we will find the right balance to allow our citizens both 'freedom from' and 'freedom to' liberties.
  - shmulkey18 15y ago
    "Different kinds of freedom". Whenever anyone says this, I get very nervous. It's pretty clear that these "different kinds" are not real freedom at all, and so don't include things like freedom of speech, the ability to truly determine who governs you, or even the freedom to water or not water the plants in front of your apartment (failing to do the latter in Singapore will result in a visit from the cops). Here's a case of a man who was arrested for daring to write a book which criticised the use of the death penalty in Singapore: http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2010/07/singapore-alan-shadrake-ben-bland-free-speech-death-penalty/ http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2010/07/singapore-alan-shad.... I doubt he thinks the trade-off you propose for these (putative) "different kinds of freedom" is a good one. Also: what you refer to as "freedom from" liberties seemed to inevitably involve infringing another's "freedom to". As such, it seems improper to term them "freedom". The fact that some prefer a happy face dictatorship to a system which affords a large measure of actual liberty seems to me a very sad commentary on the human condition.
    - iantimothy 15y ago
      Is an individual's freedom to do something more important than another individual's freedom from something? My country takes a rather paternalistic view on this but like I said, i am casually optimistic that things will change and we as a country are moving towards a more informed citizenry renegotiating the social compact between the govt and people and finding a balance in both positive and negative liberties. Edited: I can't seen to reply the comment below, so adding the reply here. One of the things my country takes very seriously is both the perception and actual oppression of minorities. In this case, we want ethnic minorities to have the freedom from majority oppression. As an example, there are measures that are put in place that prevents some of our freedom to say certain stuff about the religion Islam in a certain way. To say the rules are like a cudgel instead of a scapel would be right but as a citizen I can see where my government is coming from. Like the comment below said, generally yes to freedom to instead of freedom from. What is considered not a general case in Singapore differs; that does not make us wrong. Neither does it mean our system is right and perfect. What it does mean is my country is learning and hopefully maturing.
iantimothy 15y ago
Hello from Singapore! And welcome to the family. Hope to meet you at echelon2011.
kylec 15y ago
I'm surprised at his choice of location - Singapore is quite a nanny state, and the punishments are sometimes quite severe. "Singapore society is highly regulated through the criminalization of many activities which are considered as fairly harmless in other countries. These include failing to flush toilets after use, littering, jaywalking, the possession of pornography, and the sale of chewing gum." "Singapore has one of the highest execution rates in the world relative to its population, surpassing Saudi Arabia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law_of_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law_of_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penalty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penal... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_court_in_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_cou... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provisions)_Act_(Singapore) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provisi...
- sahillavingia 15y ago
  There are pros and cons of living anywhere. Visit Singapore and you'll encounter some of the cleanest streets on the planet. I don't mind the "severe" punishments that come down on those that do things like litter, because I don't litter — all in all it doesn't change my behavior for the worse, and only improves the quality of life. And jaywalking is illegal in the US too. I'd love to answer any questions about Singapore, if you want to ask them privately (I lived there for several years): sahil@slavingia.com
  - shmulkey18 15y ago
    Clean streets vs. freedom of speech. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.
    - vegai 15y ago
      How is anyone's freedom of speech violated if they're not allowed to litter?
      - 15y ago
chailatte 15y ago
Strange, considering Singapore is a pretty musically desolate place. Then again, Imogen Heap was just there, so I guess you'll get the occasional rain. Try restaurant andre.
noelsequeira 15y ago
Here's wishing you all the best on this latest leg of a journey we've so enjoyed reading about. Singapore is 3 hours from India You must visit way more often - you now have no excuse not to.
jrockway 15y ago
Ah yes, Singapore... the one developed country with harsher laws than the US.
- jister 15y ago
  ...with a very low crime rate compared to US.
- mhd 15y ago
  Depending on how you're looking at things lots of first world countries have harsher laws. The US gets kinda batshit with their punishments (drug war, three strikes etc.), but a lot of European countries have bigger restrictions on free speech, the UK has its libel laws, generally employment is more regulated etc. And then there's the whole gun issue. (No, this doesn't make Singapore any "better", I'm just saying that the US isn't exactly dystopian just because it doesn't have legal hookers)
frossie 15y ago
The whole stay-abroad until you see "their" point of view is admirable. The flip side is that after that, you can never really go home. I mean obviously you can physically, but you give up your ability to fit in with your own people. This may or may not be a downside for you, but something to be aware of. Anyway, congratulations on your move. [edit in response to questions below: there is a big difference between living abroad for a few months a year or a couple of years and doing what the OP is suggesting - living abroad for long enough that your adult life is permanently established abroad. There is a turning point (in my experience around 15 years) at which point you have lived away from your family and old friends (which is what I meant by own people) that your different experiences come to overshadow your old similarities, especially if there are significant cultural differences. For an academic example imagine a woman from Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed even to drive living and working in the US for 20 years integrated in normal US life. It is unlikely she can ever return home and slot back as if she has never left. Americans are not exempt from this phenomenon - as can be reported by expats living in Europe going home to visit their families and ending up in epic arguments over US foreign policy. I live surrounded by expats (not short term visitors) from many countries and they would all report various degrees of this. Basically, once you become a citizen of the world, any one country and culture can come to be seen as parochial).
- cglee 15y ago
  The whole point I believe is to remove the notion of "your own people". Therefore, you "fit in" anywhere.
  - hessenwolf 15y ago
    I would argue you thus fit in nowhere, and that that can be okay too.
    - tommi 15y ago
      Are you arguing that you can only fit in to one place in your life? Fitting in is only a feeling after all.
louislouis 15y ago
Did you ever consider Hong Kong as one of your possible locations to migrate to? And what made you decide against it?
- sivers 15y ago
  It was near the top of the list, but failed on two big counts: (1) - the air (2) - Cantonese I've already been studying Mandarin slowly for a couple years, and though I've heard I could have "gotten by" with English and Mandarin, I really wanted to just focus on Mandarin + simplified Chinese. But mostly it was the air. :-)
  - chailatte 15y ago
    Why not Taipei then? The area near 101 is quite nice. And it has a better nightlife.
    - dengzhi 15y ago
      he's married and not in his 20's. why would he care about nightlife?
  - louislouis 15y ago
    I've been in HK for the past 2.5 years. The air isn't too bad. For example today, sunny and clear skies. I think it would only have a measurable effect on health if you were to live here 30+ years. I would say in any given week, maybe 1-2 days it's slightly smoggy here. Singapore is a good choice though. I've also considered it. Some may complain about the hot/humid tropical climate all year round but I like that. It's also the most racially diverse country I've visited. Given your wife is Indian she will have an easier time settling in there than in HK where it's predominantly Chinese but with a huge expat crowd on the island side. Cantonese is not necessary here, you could get by without a single word really as most people speak English and Mandarin here. There is probably more chance of getting some Mandarin practice in too than in SG where they speak a variety of Chinese dialects.
  - deerpig 15y ago
bina 15y ago
Congrats Derek. This favors a trend I've noticed. White men moving to Asia or marrying/dating Asian women. It seems like half or more of the engineers I work with are married to Asian women, which is how I noticed this (I am also). It's an interesting trend. It's increasingly harder to find a white woman who will marry and have kids, let alone even talk to a man with geeky characteristics. Combine that with the lack of white women in science and engineering degrees...
- callmeed 15y ago
  http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/11-asian-girls/ http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/11-asian-girls/
- jasonkester 15y ago
  This is a tough subject. You're right that if you walk around a city in SE Asia, you'll inevitably see lots of old, fat, bald men walking around with young pretty local girls, and there's no mistaking what's going on. Lots of these guys marry their bar girls and bring them home, so it's not uncommon to see a surly, tattoo'd guy walking around in Manchester with a Thai girl who's clearly way out of his league. But what happens if you're a young traveler living in Chiang Mai, teaching English, and you meet a local girl who works as a bank teller. You fall in love, meet her parents, marry and eventually move back to your country with her. How do you signal to the world that yours is in fact a legitimate relationship? The short answer is: you can't. There's a stigma, deserved or undeserved. It's something you learn to live with, because you know that nomatter how clearly you explain your position, you'll still end up fielding uncomfortable questions like the one asked by the parent.
  - enry_straker 15y ago
    As far as love, and other personal matters are concerned, why do you care what other people think? ( with apologies to Feynman ) If you were to judge Asian women purely on looks, they might feel like they belong to a different class, but more often than not, they are using the 'white' guy to escape the grinding nature of their poverty and a pretty cruel life back in their hometown. For folks with a western upbrinding, they also seem to like the calm, obedient, slightly docile nature of asian women - though i believe education and other opportunities are making them more outspoken and discerning than before. If you find yourself dating someone - and sense stigma from friends, relatives etc ignore them initially till they get used to your partner/gf/bf etc. As time goes by, folks come around. It's really difficult to hold a grudge or stigma for a long period of time.
fookyong 15y ago
I just moved to Singapore too! (been here one month exactly now). It's ace. I'm loving it.
d99kris 15y ago
Having set up a similar goal many years ago - to stay/live in a big number of countries - it's interesting to see that we both settled for Singapore.
quant18 15y ago
Congratulations on the move! Asia is a great place to be. And a great environment for doing business. I'm in Hong Kong --- in several cities around the region including here, SG, KL, and Jakarta I see lots of latent entrepreneurial energy starting to manifest itself. One warning: since it seems you plan to majority-own some local startups I hope you have an excellent accountant to help you with Uncle Sam. (yep, Americans living overseas still have to file with the IRS. whole mess of complicated forms. can even end up having to pay tax on undistributed corporate profits if you're not careful ...)
nihilocrat 15y ago
Do you learn the local language every place you live? I would suppose that's a pretty herculean task unless you already know several fluently and spend a considerable amount of time daily studying and practicing.
- maayank 15y ago
  English is an official language of Singapore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Languages
  - xiaoma 15y ago
    That's true in theory. The Singaporeans I've known and worked with have pretty much all been bilingual in Mandarin and English, often speaking Taiwanese or Cantonese as well. On the down side, their Mandarin, English and probably other languages are each strange. Despite having grown up in an English environment and having spent most my adult life in Taiwan, communication isn't necessarily that smooth. It's like they just grab words, grammatical particles, and sentence structures willy-nilly from whatever language they feel like, including Malay. It's not just an issue of "Singlish". Even adjusting to standard Mandarin in China is a bit of work for the Singaporean interns I've met in Beijing. As a casual learner of Cantonese and Taiwanese, it's fun crowd to hang out with, though!
lzy 15y ago
While Sivers is obviously an awesome guy, why is this post about him moving to Singapore hitting the frontpage? Just curious. (Congrats on becoming a Singapore citizen btw!)
- throwaway0506 15y ago
  He's a community member telling us not just about a big change in his life, but about two new projects he's starting. As a weekend post, it's pretty good. At least much better than the current top item (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2621132 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2621132), which screams "video of pratfall!" Too bad the main discussion here has turned out to be a low-quality back-and-forth about the political system and macroeconomic factors, just like the Indian reverse braindrain thread last week (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2601240 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2601240)
- bina 15y ago
  Because all of the other white geeks on this site want to abandon their culture and move to Asia, so it appeals to them. They've been rejected by white women all their lives but have no problem with asian women. In addition, the civilized and high-tech society attracts them.
lotusleaf1987 15y ago
Your favorite subject is always yourself. Why should I care about this? Was bitcoin in the headline earlier?
more_later 15y ago
In my opinion, you can judge the autocracy of a state based on how polite (or, impolite) the police (or civil servants) are and their general attitude towards an average citizen. I lived in Singapore for 12 years. It has, by far, the most polite police force. The civil service is way more efficient than any other country's bureaucracy. When you deal with any arm of the government, you get the feeling that they are there to serve you.
jasonkester 15y ago
"we took one carry-on bag each, and went around the world" Reading that just makes me smile. Well done. So many people say they want to do exactly that. So few do it. Of the people who don't do it, so many regret not having done it. Of the people who have, I've never met a single one who regretted it. I hope your story serves as inspiration for somebody here to pack that little carry-on and book himself a one-way flight.
sidwyn 15y ago
I grew up and lived in Singapore all my life, and am glad to hear you moved over! One thing to note though, you should remove your Identity Card No. from your blog post. They can be used illegally and is best kept private. Have dropped you a mail, let's meet up sometime!
cageface 15y ago
Singapore seemed a little to squeaky-clean and expensive, so I did the same thing, but in Vietnam instead. Internet infrastructure here isn't great but other than that I haven't regretted it for a second. The U.S. and Europe just seem so boring now when I go back.
- seri 15y ago
  I'm Vietnamese, so I get a little curious here. Would you mind sharing what you particuarly like about Vietnam? And which city are you living in?
  - cageface 15y ago
    I'm in Nha Trang. I love the food, the friendly people, the beautiful beaches and the countryside. It's also very cheap to live here so I have a lot of personal runway to work on my own projects before I have to consider getting a real job again or consulting for somebody else. It's a perfect place for a little hacker sabbatical.
  - bane 15y ago
    Anthony Bourdain has done a few episodes on Vietnam, it's his favorite place on Earth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbOmZFoJYE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbOmZFoJYE
- vpdn 15y ago
  > Internet infrastructure here isn't great I was in Vietnam last year for a longer trip (worked remotely for a client in Germany). I found the internet to be working extremely well in Saigon, so it might just be your region. For two weeks I worked off Phu Quoc Island. A few times, we had power outage on the island, yet I was able to go online through my 3g connection. Pretty amazing change compared to the last time I visited he country four years back to visit my grand family.
  - cageface 15y ago
    I haven't tried 3G here yet. WIFI in hotels is generally very slow and unreliable here. Now that I have my own DSL line things are better. It's not always fast enough for video chat but for routine use it's fine.
arvin 15y ago
Nice! I also moved to Singapore just 7 months ago. Great country to work in. Loving it here too.
ido 15y ago
Race: Caucasian Maybe it's cultural bias, but I was really surprised they'd list something like that on an ID card!
- rdl 15y ago
  It's pretty useful when trying to describe someone, or prevent a photo from being swapped out. Gender, hair color, skin color, etc. are all obvious physical traits.
  - tokenadult 15y ago
    "Race" is a useless descriptor for all four of my children. I've heard a lot of wild-ass guesses of their "race" over the years in public places. More detailed descriptive terms with less ambiguity would serve a lot better for matching photographs to identity cards, if that is the concern. (The internal political history Singapore might might refer to for identifying "race" on identity cards http://www.mha.gov.sg/isd/ct.htm http://www.mha.gov.sg/isd/ct.htm http://mysingaporenews.blogspot.com/2011/01/danger-of-racial-riots.html http://mysingaporenews.blogspot.com/2011/01/danger-of-racial... probably makes for different categories, with different definitions, from the definitions used in the United States, which fortunately does NOT put "race" on national identity cards.) Categorization by race on national identity cards is a matter of considerable concern to human rights scholars who have looked at real-world examples of that practice. http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/AboutGen_Group_Classification_on_National_ID_Cards.pdf http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/AboutGen_Group_Classific... The long answer about how ridiculous "race" is as a descriptive category can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/Anthropol...
- andycroll 15y ago
  One od the reasons is that Singapore is pro-racial integration, so they put it on virtually every official form... for example there are rules to prevent segregation by 'race' within the public housing system. But even after living here 4 years it still strikes me as strange.
- 15y ago
david927 15y ago
Whenever I go to a new place, it takes about a year to really understand the true "costs" of living there. (The benefits are usually obvious on the first day or two.) I have a friend who lived in Singapore for many years. The biggest "cost" for her in living there was that it is not fully subscribed to the principals of the Enlightenment. I know this is like saying, "Yes your new girlfriend is cute and smart, but you should know she's also occasionally batshit crazy." You won't believe me and you'll be more inclined to shoot the messenger, but I thought you should know.
- dualogy 15y ago
  No place on earth is "fully subscribed to the principals (principles acshully) of the Enlightenment" -- once you fully grok that, every place is perfectly fine for tourism and every place kinda sucks for citizenship. Of course, degrees vary. But... in principle!
- maayank 15y ago
  may you please elaborate? to what ideas of the enlightenment you think they aren't subscribed?
FrojoS 15y ago
Singapore is a fine city. http://www.google.com/search?q=Singapore+is+a+fine+city&hl=en&qscrl=1&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=P1frTZ_aKaHy0gHVgem-AQ&ved=0CCIQsAQ&biw=833&bih=450 http://www.google.com/search?q=Singapore+is+a+fine+city&...
jacques_chester 15y ago
I've played footsie with moving to Singapore if I get a startup bubbling. Here's why: * Low regulation * Low company tax * No income tax paid on dividends * No capital gains It's also a market capital for Asia. Singapore and Hong Kong are the New York and London of the Asia-Pacific region. Very deep pools of capital. Plus it's 3.5 hours from my home town and about 5 hours from where my parents live.
charlesbarbier 15y ago
Why is this post get so many vote? I understand that this guy is famous for some of the stuff he did, but hey... hacker news is news for hacker, right? not news about hacker?
- nishantmodak 15y ago
  Totally agree. I wondered the same. May be - since he is a _famous_ hacker - an update about his location might help those in the area with communities / talks etc?
- mcantor 15y ago
  Travel and worldliness are both interesting subjects to many hackers. I'm sure that a less notable hacker moving to Singapore wouldn't attract quite so much attention, but you should notice that most of this thread isn't about Mr. Sivers: it's about Singapore.
cletus 15y ago
I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive. There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there. I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chewing gum in Zurich). Both cities are clean, almost sterile, safe and they basically work (public transport and other infrastructure). Some people chafe against what they feel is an intrusion. You see those same opinions about New York where I now live. Some feel that NYC has lost a lot of the "grit" or "character" that it once had (back when, you know, muggings were common). One wonders at the psychology of danger and character going hand in hand. For those who think Singapore is overly-regulated, which it is, you have to remember that English-speaking countries are pretty much an outlier. In continental Europe there are rules about everything, from how to throw out the trash to have to register with the government every time you move and what kinds of window treatments you're allowed to use. When I worked in Zurich a colleague once described it succinctly: in England (and, by extension, the US, Canada and Australia) you can do whatever you want except for those things that are banned. On the mainland (of Europe) you can't do anything unless it's specifically allowed. While not true in the strictest sense, that delineation that is tantamount to blacklisting vs whitelisting does, at least in my experience, embody a lot of the cultural differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations. That guy's wife is Finnish and she found it unnerving in England. She wanted that structure of essentially being told what to do and how to do it (within limits). The only thing I don't really like about Singapore (apart from the weather)--and this is probably true of most Asian countries--is the importance of face time at work. You're expected to be at work a lot even if you're not doing anything. That whole "appearance of work" thing and regimented approach to work in general (ie being very much concerned with the process rather than the results) is something that I've always chafed against.
- Daniel14 15y ago
  I live near Zurich but don't perceive the rules to be anywhere near as strict as you described, and would certainly not talk about "being told what to do" by the state. In Singapur, there are lots of laws unimaginable in Switzerland (for example, it's forbidden to smoke in public, you go to jail for speeding/driving while drunk, spitting or chewing gum, you'll t get killed for possessing drugs...). In Switzerland, what I believe causes the low criminality rate is the even lower poverty rate because of the strong social system. What would be called socialist in the States is completely normal here in Europe, and often results in a much better quality of life for everyone living here.
brisance 15y ago
Singapore isn't perfect, but no place is. These are some issues that Singaporeans face: 1) Rising cost of living through inflation. 2) Expensive housing. 3) Lack of financial liquidity. Singaporeans are asset-rich but cash-poor. 4) Apathy amongst the populace about social issues, legal and political process although this is changing, albeit slowly. 5) An extremely ingrained and fearful sense of failure. If it's not been done before, the default answer is "No". Some good things going for it: 1) Public infrastructure is generally good but facing challenges from an increasing migrant population. 2) Personal safety. Women can walk home alone at night and not be assaulted. 3) Racial harmony. You don't read about hate crimes, skinheads etc. Some forms of implicit racial profiling and discrimination exists, but they are not widespread. i.e. there are always assholes of any color. 4) Low personal income tax.
matimateo 15y ago
First post here - long time lurker. I was transferred to Singapore for work from Tokyo. Here are my impressions. -housing is extremely expensive, food is generally cheap, air quality is nice -streets are not as clean as expected, especially compared to Tokyo, which is a much larger city. I lived in Chinatown in the People's Park Complex with 6 mainland Chinese (I'm American), which was an interesting experience. -the expat community is dominated by the finance community, which can tend to limit the crowds you will run with if you're not in with the locals. I tried to befriend the locals, with limited success. -it doesn't feel like the police state it's made out to be, don't worry about being arrested for chewing gum (I saw some T-shirts with a "Legalize It" theme referring to gum). Overall, Singapore seemed sterile to me. That was part my reason for quitting my job and moving back to Tokyo in April. I like Singapore, but not my cup of tea. Maybe that's just because I'm a huge fan of Japan.
whow 15y ago
Singapore reminds me of Apple. A very focus country on being the most successful country in SEA and it's built on the vision of one man, LKY. However I do fear the day LKY pass and the government is lost.
johnnyjustice 15y ago
You are my hero Sivers. Very few people are bad ass and contribute. Thank you showing me it can be done.
webmonkeyuk 15y ago
I've got to wonder how much of a good plan it is to publish your ID card including ID Number and DoB.
tlrobinson 15y ago
What's the cost of living for a foreigner in Singapore like? Obviously there can be a big range, but I'm curious what your experiences are? More generally, is there some resource for comparing costs of living of various places?
- sivers 15y ago
  Very very expensive. About the same as central London. I wouldn't recommend it at all if you're concerned about that.
PaulHoule 15y ago
cool for you. i'd rather stay in one place and get a chance, in my lifetime, to learn how a forest grows myself.
yzhengyu 15y ago
Welcome to Singapore! I'm a native and I am glad you are enamored of our little island so much so you applied for permanent residency. :) On the flip side, if you stay long enough and pay more attention to what goes on around you, I hope you will realize under the facade of shining steel and glaas, our society is also very dysfunctional.
sashthebash 15y ago
"She can do this from anywhere"... that's often the problem. I can work from anywhere and I'm currently single, so I'm traveling the world and living in different places (currently Buenos Aires), but a partner would make this much harder as they are usually not as flexible. Startup idea: Have a dating site for location-independent individuals, I'll be your first customer :).
donaq 15y ago
Welcome to our sunny island!
RobertL 15y ago
This is a very good idea my friend. I may be following soon.
flocial 15y ago
At least Singapore's upfront about it. America has a shameful proportion of its population incarcerated and what of the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies encroaching on your liberties? Or how the TSA strips you with a more radiation than Fukushima just to travel? Of course, there are valid critiques of Singaporean society in the comments but for the average person these draconian laws might be minor trade offs for a safer, cleaner urban life.

238 points by sivers 15y ago

bemmu 15y ago

I would recommend against putting a scan of an identity card online.

jackowayed 15y ago
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. But is that number publicly available? If so (or if nothing bad happens if people do know it), is there an issue? Edit: Hmm ... "This has led to complaints of the possibility of fraud and identity theft. Therefore, now when NRIC numbers are publicly displayed, only the last three digits and the letters are displayed." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_Card http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_...
- sivers 15y ago
  This is one way to find out. You've also got my home address and mobile phone# in the public corporate records (see bottom of http://50pop.com/ http://50pop.com/ ) - so I'm not relying on security through obscurity.
  - bemmu 15y ago
    After proudly getting my driver's license I put an image of it online. Someone printed it out while replacing the picture with their own face. Police saw this fake ID. Even though the quality was laughable, I was called in for questioning because they thought I might have cooperated in the fraud. But yeah, probably an unlikely enough event to not worry about it.
  - happywolf 15y ago
    A lot of banks and telcos in SG will use your DOB, mailing address, and NRIC number as security questions when you call them. Posting your info here is not wise IMHO.

nithyad 15y ago

Hope I visit you in Singapore before you move out to another part of the world!

seymores 15y ago

Wow, where do you hang out?

sivers 15y ago
Home. Working. I prefer solitude. I don't hang out much. http://www.tagbento.com/243/dereks-desk http://www.tagbento.com/243/dereks-desk
- jrockway 15y ago
  I don't hang out much. This sounds counter to your goal "to remove the separations of “us” and “them”."
- jianxioy 15y ago
  Great view of Parkview Square there. Welcome to Singapore. :)
- seymores 15y ago
  Well, you should check out the meetup scene, lots of them almost on weekly basis. Love to bump into you in one of those meetups.
- louislouis 15y ago
  How the hell can u work like that for a number of hours at a time? The weight of the laptop on your legs, not to mention the heat from the fan must make it bearable for only a short time. A desk/table for minimum requirement surely.
- caswabi 15y ago
  Welcome! btw, is your office on Beach rd? ours is too (Shaw Tower), hope to run into you around the area.
  - sivers 15y ago
    Feel free to email me anytime : http://sivers.org/contact http://sivers.org/contact

BadassFractal 15y ago

Pretty amazed that you got permanent residency in under 8 months. That'd be amazing in the US.

nikcub 15y ago

congrats! you should totally blur your national ID number, though and I had no idea they do the old 'race on national ID' thing

shmulkey18 15y ago

Are you enjoying living in a police state? Seriously.

iantimothy 15y ago
We aren't a police state. We enjoy different kinds of freedom. Sure, previously some of the 'freedom to' stuff was clammed down upon,but the recent elections showed that we might be moving forward in the right direction. I am casually optimistic that we will find the right balance to allow our citizens both 'freedom from' and 'freedom to' liberties.
- shmulkey18 15y ago
  "Different kinds of freedom". Whenever anyone says this, I get very nervous. It's pretty clear that these "different kinds" are not real freedom at all, and so don't include things like freedom of speech, the ability to truly determine who governs you, or even the freedom to water or not water the plants in front of your apartment (failing to do the latter in Singapore will result in a visit from the cops). Here's a case of a man who was arrested for daring to write a book which criticised the use of the death penalty in Singapore: http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2010/07/singapore-alan-shadrake-ben-bland-free-speech-death-penalty/ http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2010/07/singapore-alan-shad.... I doubt he thinks the trade-off you propose for these (putative) "different kinds of freedom" is a good one. Also: what you refer to as "freedom from" liberties seemed to inevitably involve infringing another's "freedom to". As such, it seems improper to term them "freedom". The fact that some prefer a happy face dictatorship to a system which affords a large measure of actual liberty seems to me a very sad commentary on the human condition.
  - iantimothy 15y ago
    Is an individual's freedom to do something more important than another individual's freedom from something? My country takes a rather paternalistic view on this but like I said, i am casually optimistic that things will change and we as a country are moving towards a more informed citizenry renegotiating the social compact between the govt and people and finding a balance in both positive and negative liberties. Edited: I can't seen to reply the comment below, so adding the reply here. One of the things my country takes very seriously is both the perception and actual oppression of minorities. In this case, we want ethnic minorities to have the freedom from majority oppression. As an example, there are measures that are put in place that prevents some of our freedom to say certain stuff about the religion Islam in a certain way. To say the rules are like a cudgel instead of a scapel would be right but as a citizen I can see where my government is coming from. Like the comment below said, generally yes to freedom to instead of freedom from. What is considered not a general case in Singapore differs; that does not make us wrong. Neither does it mean our system is right and perfect. What it does mean is my country is learning and hopefully maturing.

iantimothy 15y ago

Hello from Singapore! And welcome to the family. Hope to meet you at echelon2011.

kylec 15y ago

I'm surprised at his choice of location - Singapore is quite a nanny state, and the punishments are sometimes quite severe. "Singapore society is highly regulated through the criminalization of many activities which are considered as fairly harmless in other countries. These include failing to flush toilets after use, littering, jaywalking, the possession of pornography, and the sale of chewing gum." "Singapore has one of the highest execution rates in the world relative to its population, surpassing Saudi Arabia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law_of_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law_of_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penalty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penal... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_court_in_Singapore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_cou... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provisions)_Act_(Singapore) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provisi...

sahillavingia 15y ago
There are pros and cons of living anywhere. Visit Singapore and you'll encounter some of the cleanest streets on the planet. I don't mind the "severe" punishments that come down on those that do things like litter, because I don't litter — all in all it doesn't change my behavior for the worse, and only improves the quality of life. And jaywalking is illegal in the US too. I'd love to answer any questions about Singapore, if you want to ask them privately (I lived there for several years): sahil@slavingia.com
- shmulkey18 15y ago
  Clean streets vs. freedom of speech. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.
  - vegai 15y ago
    How is anyone's freedom of speech violated if they're not allowed to litter?
    - 15y ago

chailatte 15y ago

Strange, considering Singapore is a pretty musically desolate place. Then again, Imogen Heap was just there, so I guess you'll get the occasional rain. Try restaurant andre.

noelsequeira 15y ago

Here's wishing you all the best on this latest leg of a journey we've so enjoyed reading about. Singapore is 3 hours from India You must visit way more often - you now have no excuse not to.

jrockway 15y ago

Ah yes, Singapore... the one developed country with harsher laws than the US.

jister 15y ago
...with a very low crime rate compared to US.
mhd 15y ago
Depending on how you're looking at things lots of first world countries have harsher laws. The US gets kinda batshit with their punishments (drug war, three strikes etc.), but a lot of European countries have bigger restrictions on free speech, the UK has its libel laws, generally employment is more regulated etc. And then there's the whole gun issue. (No, this doesn't make Singapore any "better", I'm just saying that the US isn't exactly dystopian just because it doesn't have legal hookers)

frossie 15y ago

The whole stay-abroad until you see "their" point of view is admirable. The flip side is that after that, you can never really go home. I mean obviously you can physically, but you give up your ability to fit in with your own people. This may or may not be a downside for you, but something to be aware of. Anyway, congratulations on your move. [edit in response to questions below: there is a big difference between living abroad for a few months a year or a couple of years and doing what the OP is suggesting - living abroad for long enough that your adult life is permanently established abroad. There is a turning point (in my experience around 15 years) at which point you have lived away from your family and old friends (which is what I meant by own people) that your different experiences come to overshadow your old similarities, especially if there are significant cultural differences. For an academic example imagine a woman from Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed even to drive living and working in the US for 20 years integrated in normal US life. It is unlikely she can ever return home and slot back as if she has never left. Americans are not exempt from this phenomenon - as can be reported by expats living in Europe going home to visit their families and ending up in epic arguments over US foreign policy. I live surrounded by expats (not short term visitors) from many countries and they would all report various degrees of this. Basically, once you become a citizen of the world, any one country and culture can come to be seen as parochial).

cglee 15y ago
The whole point I believe is to remove the notion of "your own people". Therefore, you "fit in" anywhere.
- hessenwolf 15y ago
  I would argue you thus fit in nowhere, and that that can be okay too.
  - tommi 15y ago
    Are you arguing that you can only fit in to one place in your life? Fitting in is only a feeling after all.

louislouis 15y ago

Did you ever consider Hong Kong as one of your possible locations to migrate to? And what made you decide against it?

sivers 15y ago
It was near the top of the list, but failed on two big counts: (1) - the air (2) - Cantonese I've already been studying Mandarin slowly for a couple years, and though I've heard I could have "gotten by" with English and Mandarin, I really wanted to just focus on Mandarin + simplified Chinese. But mostly it was the air. :-)
- chailatte 15y ago
  Why not Taipei then? The area near 101 is quite nice. And it has a better nightlife.
  - dengzhi 15y ago
    he's married and not in his 20's. why would he care about nightlife?
- louislouis 15y ago
  I've been in HK for the past 2.5 years. The air isn't too bad. For example today, sunny and clear skies. I think it would only have a measurable effect on health if you were to live here 30+ years. I would say in any given week, maybe 1-2 days it's slightly smoggy here. Singapore is a good choice though. I've also considered it. Some may complain about the hot/humid tropical climate all year round but I like that. It's also the most racially diverse country I've visited. Given your wife is Indian she will have an easier time settling in there than in HK where it's predominantly Chinese but with a huge expat crowd on the island side. Cantonese is not necessary here, you could get by without a single word really as most people speak English and Mandarin here. There is probably more chance of getting some Mandarin practice in too than in SG where they speak a variety of Chinese dialects.
- deerpig 15y ago

bina 15y ago

Congrats Derek. This favors a trend I've noticed. White men moving to Asia or marrying/dating Asian women. It seems like half or more of the engineers I work with are married to Asian women, which is how I noticed this (I am also). It's an interesting trend. It's increasingly harder to find a white woman who will marry and have kids, let alone even talk to a man with geeky characteristics. Combine that with the lack of white women in science and engineering degrees...

callmeed 15y ago
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/11-asian-girls/ http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/11-asian-girls/
jasonkester 15y ago
This is a tough subject. You're right that if you walk around a city in SE Asia, you'll inevitably see lots of old, fat, bald men walking around with young pretty local girls, and there's no mistaking what's going on. Lots of these guys marry their bar girls and bring them home, so it's not uncommon to see a surly, tattoo'd guy walking around in Manchester with a Thai girl who's clearly way out of his league. But what happens if you're a young traveler living in Chiang Mai, teaching English, and you meet a local girl who works as a bank teller. You fall in love, meet her parents, marry and eventually move back to your country with her. How do you signal to the world that yours is in fact a legitimate relationship? The short answer is: you can't. There's a stigma, deserved or undeserved. It's something you learn to live with, because you know that nomatter how clearly you explain your position, you'll still end up fielding uncomfortable questions like the one asked by the parent.
- enry_straker 15y ago
  As far as love, and other personal matters are concerned, why do you care what other people think? ( with apologies to Feynman ) If you were to judge Asian women purely on looks, they might feel like they belong to a different class, but more often than not, they are using the 'white' guy to escape the grinding nature of their poverty and a pretty cruel life back in their hometown. For folks with a western upbrinding, they also seem to like the calm, obedient, slightly docile nature of asian women - though i believe education and other opportunities are making them more outspoken and discerning than before. If you find yourself dating someone - and sense stigma from friends, relatives etc ignore them initially till they get used to your partner/gf/bf etc. As time goes by, folks come around. It's really difficult to hold a grudge or stigma for a long period of time.

fookyong 15y ago

I just moved to Singapore too! (been here one month exactly now). It's ace. I'm loving it.

d99kris 15y ago

Having set up a similar goal many years ago - to stay/live in a big number of countries - it's interesting to see that we both settled for Singapore.

quant18 15y ago

Congratulations on the move! Asia is a great place to be. And a great environment for doing business. I'm in Hong Kong --- in several cities around the region including here, SG, KL, and Jakarta I see lots of latent entrepreneurial energy starting to manifest itself. One warning: since it seems you plan to majority-own some local startups I hope you have an excellent accountant to help you with Uncle Sam. (yep, Americans living overseas still have to file with the IRS. whole mess of complicated forms. can even end up having to pay tax on undistributed corporate profits if you're not careful ...)

nihilocrat 15y ago

Do you learn the local language every place you live? I would suppose that's a pretty herculean task unless you already know several fluently and spend a considerable amount of time daily studying and practicing.

maayank 15y ago
English is an official language of Singapore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Languages
- xiaoma 15y ago
  That's true in theory. The Singaporeans I've known and worked with have pretty much all been bilingual in Mandarin and English, often speaking Taiwanese or Cantonese as well. On the down side, their Mandarin, English and probably other languages are each strange. Despite having grown up in an English environment and having spent most my adult life in Taiwan, communication isn't necessarily that smooth. It's like they just grab words, grammatical particles, and sentence structures willy-nilly from whatever language they feel like, including Malay. It's not just an issue of "Singlish". Even adjusting to standard Mandarin in China is a bit of work for the Singaporean interns I've met in Beijing. As a casual learner of Cantonese and Taiwanese, it's fun crowd to hang out with, though!

lzy 15y ago

While Sivers is obviously an awesome guy, why is this post about him moving to Singapore hitting the frontpage? Just curious. (Congrats on becoming a Singapore citizen btw!)

throwaway0506 15y ago
He's a community member telling us not just about a big change in his life, but about two new projects he's starting. As a weekend post, it's pretty good. At least much better than the current top item (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2621132 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2621132), which screams "video of pratfall!" Too bad the main discussion here has turned out to be a low-quality back-and-forth about the political system and macroeconomic factors, just like the Indian reverse braindrain thread last week (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2601240 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2601240)
bina 15y ago
Because all of the other white geeks on this site want to abandon their culture and move to Asia, so it appeals to them. They've been rejected by white women all their lives but have no problem with asian women. In addition, the civilized and high-tech society attracts them.

lotusleaf1987 15y ago

Your favorite subject is always yourself. Why should I care about this? Was bitcoin in the headline earlier?

more_later 15y ago

In my opinion, you can judge the autocracy of a state based on how polite (or, impolite) the police (or civil servants) are and their general attitude towards an average citizen. I lived in Singapore for 12 years. It has, by far, the most polite police force. The civil service is way more efficient than any other country's bureaucracy. When you deal with any arm of the government, you get the feeling that they are there to serve you.

jasonkester 15y ago

"we took one carry-on bag each, and went around the world" Reading that just makes me smile. Well done. So many people say they want to do exactly that. So few do it. Of the people who don't do it, so many regret not having done it. Of the people who have, I've never met a single one who regretted it. I hope your story serves as inspiration for somebody here to pack that little carry-on and book himself a one-way flight.

sidwyn 15y ago

I grew up and lived in Singapore all my life, and am glad to hear you moved over! One thing to note though, you should remove your Identity Card No. from your blog post. They can be used illegally and is best kept private. Have dropped you a mail, let's meet up sometime!

cageface 15y ago

Singapore seemed a little to squeaky-clean and expensive, so I did the same thing, but in Vietnam instead. Internet infrastructure here isn't great but other than that I haven't regretted it for a second. The U.S. and Europe just seem so boring now when I go back.

seri 15y ago
I'm Vietnamese, so I get a little curious here. Would you mind sharing what you particuarly like about Vietnam? And which city are you living in?
- cageface 15y ago
  I'm in Nha Trang. I love the food, the friendly people, the beautiful beaches and the countryside. It's also very cheap to live here so I have a lot of personal runway to work on my own projects before I have to consider getting a real job again or consulting for somebody else. It's a perfect place for a little hacker sabbatical.
- bane 15y ago
  Anthony Bourdain has done a few episodes on Vietnam, it's his favorite place on Earth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbOmZFoJYE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbOmZFoJYE
vpdn 15y ago
> Internet infrastructure here isn't great I was in Vietnam last year for a longer trip (worked remotely for a client in Germany). I found the internet to be working extremely well in Saigon, so it might just be your region. For two weeks I worked off Phu Quoc Island. A few times, we had power outage on the island, yet I was able to go online through my 3g connection. Pretty amazing change compared to the last time I visited he country four years back to visit my grand family.
- cageface 15y ago
  I haven't tried 3G here yet. WIFI in hotels is generally very slow and unreliable here. Now that I have my own DSL line things are better. It's not always fast enough for video chat but for routine use it's fine.

arvin 15y ago

Nice! I also moved to Singapore just 7 months ago. Great country to work in. Loving it here too.

ido 15y ago

Race: Caucasian Maybe it's cultural bias, but I was really surprised they'd list something like that on an ID card!

rdl 15y ago
It's pretty useful when trying to describe someone, or prevent a photo from being swapped out. Gender, hair color, skin color, etc. are all obvious physical traits.
- tokenadult 15y ago
  "Race" is a useless descriptor for all four of my children. I've heard a lot of wild-ass guesses of their "race" over the years in public places. More detailed descriptive terms with less ambiguity would serve a lot better for matching photographs to identity cards, if that is the concern. (The internal political history Singapore might might refer to for identifying "race" on identity cards http://www.mha.gov.sg/isd/ct.htm http://www.mha.gov.sg/isd/ct.htm http://mysingaporenews.blogspot.com/2011/01/danger-of-racial-riots.html http://mysingaporenews.blogspot.com/2011/01/danger-of-racial... probably makes for different categories, with different definitions, from the definitions used in the United States, which fortunately does NOT put "race" on national identity cards.) Categorization by race on national identity cards is a matter of considerable concern to human rights scholars who have looked at real-world examples of that practice. http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/AboutGen_Group_Classification_on_National_ID_Cards.pdf http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/AboutGen_Group_Classific... The long answer about how ridiculous "race" is as a descriptive category can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/Anthropol...
andycroll 15y ago
One od the reasons is that Singapore is pro-racial integration, so they put it on virtually every official form... for example there are rules to prevent segregation by 'race' within the public housing system. But even after living here 4 years it still strikes me as strange.
15y ago

david927 15y ago

Whenever I go to a new place, it takes about a year to really understand the true "costs" of living there. (The benefits are usually obvious on the first day or two.) I have a friend who lived in Singapore for many years. The biggest "cost" for her in living there was that it is not fully subscribed to the principals of the Enlightenment. I know this is like saying, "Yes your new girlfriend is cute and smart, but you should know she's also occasionally batshit crazy." You won't believe me and you'll be more inclined to shoot the messenger, but I thought you should know.

dualogy 15y ago
No place on earth is "fully subscribed to the principals (principles acshully) of the Enlightenment" -- once you fully grok that, every place is perfectly fine for tourism and every place kinda sucks for citizenship. Of course, degrees vary. But... in principle!
maayank 15y ago
may you please elaborate? to what ideas of the enlightenment you think they aren't subscribed?

FrojoS 15y ago

Singapore is a fine city. http://www.google.com/search?q=Singapore+is+a+fine+city&hl=en&qscrl=1&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=P1frTZ_aKaHy0gHVgem-AQ&ved=0CCIQsAQ&biw=833&bih=450 http://www.google.com/search?q=Singapore+is+a+fine+city&...

jacques_chester 15y ago

I've played footsie with moving to Singapore if I get a startup bubbling. Here's why: * Low regulation * Low company tax * No income tax paid on dividends * No capital gains It's also a market capital for Asia. Singapore and Hong Kong are the New York and London of the Asia-Pacific region. Very deep pools of capital. Plus it's 3.5 hours from my home town and about 5 hours from where my parents live.

charlesbarbier 15y ago

Why is this post get so many vote? I understand that this guy is famous for some of the stuff he did, but hey... hacker news is news for hacker, right? not news about hacker?

nishantmodak 15y ago
Totally agree. I wondered the same. May be - since he is a _famous_ hacker - an update about his location might help those in the area with communities / talks etc?
mcantor 15y ago
Travel and worldliness are both interesting subjects to many hackers. I'm sure that a less notable hacker moving to Singapore wouldn't attract quite so much attention, but you should notice that most of this thread isn't about Mr. Sivers: it's about Singapore.

cletus 15y ago

I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive. There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there. I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chewing gum in Zurich). Both cities are clean, almost sterile, safe and they basically work (public transport and other infrastructure). Some people chafe against what they feel is an intrusion. You see those same opinions about New York where I now live. Some feel that NYC has lost a lot of the "grit" or "character" that it once had (back when, you know, muggings were common). One wonders at the psychology of danger and character going hand in hand. For those who think Singapore is overly-regulated, which it is, you have to remember that English-speaking countries are pretty much an outlier. In continental Europe there are rules about everything, from how to throw out the trash to have to register with the government every time you move and what kinds of window treatments you're allowed to use. When I worked in Zurich a colleague once described it succinctly: in England (and, by extension, the US, Canada and Australia) you can do whatever you want except for those things that are banned. On the mainland (of Europe) you can't do anything unless it's specifically allowed. While not true in the strictest sense, that delineation that is tantamount to blacklisting vs whitelisting does, at least in my experience, embody a lot of the cultural differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations. That guy's wife is Finnish and she found it unnerving in England. She wanted that structure of essentially being told what to do and how to do it (within limits). The only thing I don't really like about Singapore (apart from the weather)--and this is probably true of most Asian countries--is the importance of face time at work. You're expected to be at work a lot even if you're not doing anything. That whole "appearance of work" thing and regimented approach to work in general (ie being very much concerned with the process rather than the results) is something that I've always chafed against.

Daniel14 15y ago
I live near Zurich but don't perceive the rules to be anywhere near as strict as you described, and would certainly not talk about "being told what to do" by the state. In Singapur, there are lots of laws unimaginable in Switzerland (for example, it's forbidden to smoke in public, you go to jail for speeding/driving while drunk, spitting or chewing gum, you'll t get killed for possessing drugs...). In Switzerland, what I believe causes the low criminality rate is the even lower poverty rate because of the strong social system. What would be called socialist in the States is completely normal here in Europe, and often results in a much better quality of life for everyone living here.

brisance 15y ago

Singapore isn't perfect, but no place is. These are some issues that Singaporeans face: 1) Rising cost of living through inflation. 2) Expensive housing. 3) Lack of financial liquidity. Singaporeans are asset-rich but cash-poor. 4) Apathy amongst the populace about social issues, legal and political process although this is changing, albeit slowly. 5) An extremely ingrained and fearful sense of failure. If it's not been done before, the default answer is "No". Some good things going for it: 1) Public infrastructure is generally good but facing challenges from an increasing migrant population. 2) Personal safety. Women can walk home alone at night and not be assaulted. 3) Racial harmony. You don't read about hate crimes, skinheads etc. Some forms of implicit racial profiling and discrimination exists, but they are not widespread. i.e. there are always assholes of any color. 4) Low personal income tax.

matimateo 15y ago

First post here - long time lurker. I was transferred to Singapore for work from Tokyo. Here are my impressions. -housing is extremely expensive, food is generally cheap, air quality is nice -streets are not as clean as expected, especially compared to Tokyo, which is a much larger city. I lived in Chinatown in the People's Park Complex with 6 mainland Chinese (I'm American), which was an interesting experience. -the expat community is dominated by the finance community, which can tend to limit the crowds you will run with if you're not in with the locals. I tried to befriend the locals, with limited success. -it doesn't feel like the police state it's made out to be, don't worry about being arrested for chewing gum (I saw some T-shirts with a "Legalize It" theme referring to gum). Overall, Singapore seemed sterile to me. That was part my reason for quitting my job and moving back to Tokyo in April. I like Singapore, but not my cup of tea. Maybe that's just because I'm a huge fan of Japan.

whow 15y ago

Singapore reminds me of Apple. A very focus country on being the most successful country in SEA and it's built on the vision of one man, LKY. However I do fear the day LKY pass and the government is lost.

johnnyjustice 15y ago

You are my hero Sivers. Very few people are bad ass and contribute. Thank you showing me it can be done.

webmonkeyuk 15y ago

I've got to wonder how much of a good plan it is to publish your ID card including ID Number and DoB.

tlrobinson 15y ago

What's the cost of living for a foreigner in Singapore like? Obviously there can be a big range, but I'm curious what your experiences are? More generally, is there some resource for comparing costs of living of various places?

sivers 15y ago
Very very expensive. About the same as central London. I wouldn't recommend it at all if you're concerned about that.

PaulHoule 15y ago

cool for you. i'd rather stay in one place and get a chance, in my lifetime, to learn how a forest grows myself.

yzhengyu 15y ago

Welcome to Singapore! I'm a native and I am glad you are enamored of our little island so much so you applied for permanent residency. :) On the flip side, if you stay long enough and pay more attention to what goes on around you, I hope you will realize under the facade of shining steel and glaas, our society is also very dysfunctional.

sashthebash 15y ago

"She can do this from anywhere"... that's often the problem. I can work from anywhere and I'm currently single, so I'm traveling the world and living in different places (currently Buenos Aires), but a partner would make this much harder as they are usually not as flexible. Startup idea: Have a dating site for location-independent individuals, I'll be your first customer :).

donaq 15y ago

Welcome to our sunny island!

RobertL 15y ago

This is a very good idea my friend. I may be following soon.

flocial 15y ago

At least Singapore's upfront about it. America has a shameful proportion of its population incarcerated and what of the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies encroaching on your liberties? Or how the TSA strips you with a more radiation than Fukushima just to travel? Of course, there are valid critiques of Singaporean society in the comments but for the average person these draconian laws might be minor trade offs for a safer, cleaner urban life.